Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please!
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tclark
Samba Member


Joined: November 21, 2005
Posts: 926

tclark is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lloydy wrote:

Anyway, wow 260f! thats 126c! very hot.. i think around 80c the ecu starts to trim fueling?

yah this was in the summer on Coquihalla Hwy 5 BC
its a faster way to get from Vancouver on the coast to what we call the 'Interior of BC' total travel time 5hrs ...
steady climb for about 1.5hrs Coquihalla Summit is 1244 metres then extreme down hill to interior of bc
a true TDI EGT killer ...
take a ride up the 'Coke' first 2mins of Vid is the uphill climb

Link

(or from from Interior to Vancouver see the truck with smoked brakes @2.10 try going up )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOab5aPZC7w
https://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Hope,+BC&dad...42224&
_________________
89 Westy with TDI AHU 1.9 manual lots of mods
85 GL 1.9, auto (for sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dkoesyncro
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 802

dkoesyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loydy, I love your set up you executed that install nicely!

I have nothing to offer in the ways of temps, and efficiency between A/A or A/W as this is my first build. I went from air to water and back to air again. Reason being I am in the syncro and I wanted less to worry about and less clutter to sort through. The thought was climbing hills and playing in the back country on BLM or Forest service roads would only heat soak the A/W set up with out decent flow through the radiator. It would have to be a front or top mount but these both have the down side for the syncro. Look at all the syncros nose excavating when playing and on top would be sun soaked or a debris catch.

Early on we talked about low pressure area and I thought I had it figured out but obviously I dont! I to am going to use a spal puller fan for those slow times. I am going to have it switch operated based on user observation/judgement and will be having both ambient and before/after inter cooler temps.

this is how it fits,
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Heres the rough out for the fan and ducting,
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So do I follow you lowdy and duct it down at the fingers, or run it threw at my thumb and duct it downward
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5135
Location: PNW
Christopher Schimke is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dillon, from the testing that I have done, the area where your thumb is has a fair mount lower pressure than under the van where your fingers are. Andrew Libby found the same thing with his testing.
_________________
Christopher

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dkoesyncro
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 802

dkoesyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, Thank you so much I was hoping you'd chime in I know your prior link had a lot of user data but pics we all can understand.

You all are mavericks and have taught so many of us,
Thank you x5

Dillon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lloydy
Samba Member


Joined: September 15, 2010
Posts: 701
Location: cheam surrey
lloydy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had the chance to vent it out where your thumb is, i just thought the bumper would get in the way. I did think about having the very bottom of the valence cut off and having the vent molded into it, kinda like an sports car rear venturi. A lot of work to make it look good though
_________________
16" multivan pop top AFN TDI
“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5135
Location: PNW
Christopher Schimke is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that testing that I did was not all that conducive to photos. I mean, it was just little tubes stuck on different places.

One thing to keep in mind with the low pressure area is that you need to keep it sealed off from the higher pressure areas. So if you are going to run the exhaust ducting for the intercooler out the back (where your fingers are), you will need to have a sealed duct that goes all the way from the intercooler to the back panel. I'm also not sure what role a stock bumper would play in the low pressure. I never tested up behind the bumper, just the panels that were 100% open to the rear.

Also, I don't know exactly what the air temp differences would be between a location like lloydy's and one place in and area that tested as having a lower pressure. Maybe a lot, maybe none!
_________________
Christopher

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dkoesyncro
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 802

dkoesyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you hit my next Q, I may extend it to exit through the bumper! I will be completely sealed off, a dedicated duct from D pillar vent through IC and out the bumper. Sounds Good? Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 9470
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dillonkoester wrote:
you hit my next Q, I may extend it to exit through the bumper! I will be completely sealed off, a dedicated duct from D pillar vent through IC and out the bumper. Sounds Good? Confused


I was reading this earlier and had the same thought. If you could seal the entire pillar from top to bottom and vent into roughly the same low pressure area as the engine compartment or rear of the van, as opposed to just straight down, you might get maximum cooling flow-through effect. It might end up looking like the cowling over a jet turbine, with a smallish opening, a larger plenum in the middle, and then a smallish exit vent. Of course, I assume installing a high flow fan in the middle would make this even more effective.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Casey--
Seven VW vans from T1 through T4 since 1985
Volkswagens powered by Volkswagen
Respect the marque
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rotaecho
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 497
Location: Tujunga, California
rotaecho is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew, from your statement below, can you elaborate to any alternatives/options to this issue?

I'm doing an SAAB A2A IC in the D pillar, but also have a PD130 intake manifold with the AHU at 50deg.

I plan to do the scoops on the sides of the van to focus air into the engine compartement. The idea was to have one side for the IC and the other for the intake. I was even looking at syncro snorkles to see if that'd help any with the air flow.

Any suggestions on the below statement would be appreciated. Thanks!


Andrew A. Libby wrote:

IMO one of the greatest challenges when going with an air to air intercooler is that it eliminates the use of the d-pillar for intake air. If aux oil cooler is placed on the right side of the engine and intercooler on the left there's no easy place to get clean cool intake air.

_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 7858
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

If you have the intercooler on one side and the intake on the other there is no issue. Presumably the intercooler would go on driver's side and intake on passenger side. The issue only arises if you want to add an oil cooler as well and don't want to run the hoses to the front of the van. If you try to add the oil cooler to the passenger side where the intake is drawing it's air from, then you will have very little/no flow through the oil cooler.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rotaecho
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 497
Location: Tujunga, California
rotaecho is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Andrew forgive my ignrance, but an oil-cooler in addition to the stock AUX oil-cooler?

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
If you have the intercooler on one side and the intake on the other there is no issue. Presumably the intercooler would go on driver's side and intake on passenger side. The issue only arises if you want to add an oil cooler as well and don't want to run the hoses to the front of the van. If you try to add the oil cooler to the passenger side where the intake is drawing it's air from, then you will have very little/no flow through the oil cooler.

_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjhannink
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2016
Posts: 1

tjhannink is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I installed an aftermarket Toyota MR2 intercooler and fan and created my own shroud to seal it to the bottom of the "D" pillar.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mine is in the right "D" pillar which emulates the original installation of the TDI motor in the '99 Passat donor. It would probably work the same on the left side but you would have to relocate the A/C line.

The fan is thermostatically controlled; on at 140F, off at 130F.

Good luck,
Timothy Hannink
1987 Vanagon Camper TDI
New Orleans, LA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dkoesyncro
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 802

dkoesyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Nice install TJ, I'd imagine your bay temps stay cooler too!

This is what I did now that it's "some what" finished
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I still need to duct/shroud this end
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Waldi
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1743
Location: Germany
Waldi is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

There is no problem to hve the ic an intake in the left pillar.

Edit: Blowing the hot air into the engine room is not optimal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rotaecho
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 497
Location: Tujunga, California
rotaecho is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I'm getting ready to tackle this over the weekend. SAAB IC on the DS and the Intake on the PS. I also plan to use T3 scoops on my vents to force air into the pillards.

I got sheetmetal for the shroud, and a 7" fan, but that leads me to my two questions about the install.

1.) I saw mention of Andrew and his #'s without a fan in another post here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...p;start=20

What's the general consenus on adding a fan? I've heard some suggest it could cause restriction of air to the IC and not to use it. Anyone have experience to back this up or refute?

If a fan is recommended, how did you setup the powering of it? All the time while van runs, thermoswitch, etc?

2.) I haven't touched my lower portion of the D-pillar, so it's intact, and I have no plan's on removing/cutting.

I've seen installs where the SAAB IC is flat and others with it angled some. Is there a benefit to one over the other here?

Thanks for any input![/url]
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rmcd
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
rmcd is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



More pictures in my gallery. I don't recall the Saab IC fitting flat but could be wrong. Mine is ducted out the bottom with a puller fan. I plan to manually switch my fan.

I put a plate and grommet hole to accept one of the IC lugs to hold the driver side in place. Bad pictures.

Van still in paint mode and not running so can't give IC temp numbers or even if this will work!
_________________
Syncro panel van camper build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=575458&highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 11283
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I am not running a fan on my intercooler. For most driving including highway, I record usually 30 degrees over ambient. I think that is within the realm of reasonable. I'll have to hook my VAG COM to my wife's JSW and see what her intake temps are.

If I were going to start adding a fan to better cool IAT, I would consider using a water cooled intercooler. I believe you could better control IAT with that setup. It is just has a few more points of failure.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rotaecho
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 497
Location: Tujunga, California
rotaecho is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I'm actually swaying another direction on the IC. I still like the simplicity of the A2A. I think when using vent scoops to ram the air in they can be very effective.

The only reason for a fan, was to keep air flowing when idle or stuck in traffic was my thought. It may not be needed. I remember reading that Andrew Libby, did his install without a fan and had great results.

I hooked up my SAAB C900 IC, and I'm not too thrilled on how it's arranged. The ports are on the same side which is nice, but the pipe routing is something to be desired. It's a bit cumbersome to shroud well too.

I looked at the Toyota MR2 IC, but coudln't envision HOW to do it. Having one done in this post has me rethinking that route again.

I've been eyeing this Renault 5 GT IC which measurements look more ideal in my mind. There's two versions:

8x8x3 - Single Core

8x8x5 - Dual Core (more common)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My thought was having it placed horizontal having the ports facing towards the passenger side. This giving better access for hose hookup arrangement in my mind; pick whatever ends you want!

I was thinking of l keeping it horizontal, but lifted 2-3" and funnel that hot air down and out the van with another shee-metal shroud. Thus, keeping the hot air out of the engine bay, but only cool air hitting the IC.

MarkWard wrote:
I am not running a fan on my intercooler. For most driving including highway, I record usually 30 degrees over ambient. I think that is within the realm of reasonable. I'll have to hook my VAG COM to my wife's JSW and see what her intake temps are.

If I were going to start adding a fan to better cool IAT, I would consider using a water cooled intercooler. I believe you could better control IAT with that setup. It is just has a few more points of failure.

_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dkoesyncro
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 802

dkoesyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
Nice install TJ, I'd imagine your bay temps stay cooler too!

This is what I did now that it's "some what" finished
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I still need to duct/shroud this end
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's what this is, you'll have to do some shaving/shaping but it fits well
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rotaecho
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 497
Location: Tujunga, California
rotaecho is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

So, I just installed a Renault 5 GT A2A intercooler.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I preferred this over the SAAB C900 a few main reasons:

1.) It's longer than the SAAB so it has more reach of the core over the hole area.

2.) It doesn't require a funky mounting making it easier to remove quickly for cleaning/replacement than the SAAB.

3.) Larger core than the SAAB

I only had to tin snip the lip to let it slide in more. I have more photos here:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.66255838...9371e846b6
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB