Rat trike from 1971 VW Beetle, brakes!

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

I'd disconnect the long pedal link, jack up one side, spin the wheel by hand and see if you can stop it by pulling on the bottom or pushing on the top of your pivot link that connects directly to the master cylinder pushrod. If not, then you have other issues besides the linkage which seemed to work before.

It worked before with worn out parts. It should work again with new versions of the same parts.

Do you have any idea what "popped" when you lost the brakes?

A pic or two in your gallery would help.

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:44 am Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Hmmm, sorry thought I posted it before.

Sarge[/img]
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

I meant your pedal linkage.

Also, a bigger wheel cylinder and/or smaller master cylinder provides more leverage but also requires more pedal travel for a given displacement.

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject:

Alrighty, right side jacked up and spun.

Slows but doesn't stop right away mostly. Every so often it stops right away.

Left up...

Slows and stops slowly. Never locks.

Disconnected the linkage completely and tried by hand. Unable to depress master cylinder any further than lever does.

Will take a pic of linkage in a bit.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

Sounds like there are still bubbles in the system as well as what you said about the "feel" before.

I think you said something about gravity bleeding. A good bleed is critical. You might try a one-man bleeder kit or go buy some clear vinyl hose from home depot that will just fit over the bleeder and a jar.

Fill the jar to where the hose end is covered.
Crack the bleeder loose.
Pump the pedal until fluid with little or no bubbles comes out of the bleeder, close it, then do the side closest to the master.

You may want to do that a few times depending on how the lines are routed.

I'd like to see the linkage, but I think your issue is bleeding.

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject:

No air in the system when last I looked. It was bled via vacuum and also by the old two man system, one pumping the brake while one works the bleeder. Nice clean fresh fluid, DOT 3 synthetic.

BUT while taking pics of the set up I discovered that it appears that the "new" rebuilt master is seeping from a connection to the remote reservoir.

Brake pedal set up:

_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject:

Linkage:

_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject:

Master:

_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

You are only moving fluid to two wheel cylinders instead of 4, so there should be half the pedal travel if the linkage is right and the system is bled.

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject:

Which about what I get. But the effort is equal thru-out the travel, none of the steady increase normally felt. Of course the actual travel is limit by the stroke of the master cylinder.

Speaking of which I have searched but only found bore size on this master, no stroke length. So I have no clue if it is fully involved.

I suspect it would be much easier to move the master right in front of the pedal and forgo all the dang linkage. Of course that would mean replumbing and rebleeding the dang thing. Took 2 quarts this last time.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

I have one on the bench that I just checked. Travel is about an inch.

I'd take the master apart and check the condition of the seals. They split where the rubber gets thicker, so you have to flex them a little to see the split.

When you bled the system, was there much force to the fluid coming out of the bleeder or was it real slow?

VSarge · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject:

Travel is right then, an inch or a smidge more. I do have free play also so it is flowing back as it should.

The dang master was bought a week ago. I think before I bother rebuilding it, I would return it.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

MV8 · Samba Member Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 25

Travel of the primary piston at least. Don't know about the secondary.
If you bench bled the plugged port also, then both circuits should work.

Are you plumbed into the port nearest the pushrod or the other? Can't tell from the picture.

VSarge · Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:33 am Post subject:

Plumbed into circuit furthest from piston. Only that much line as it came to me. One line (right rear is on the side and the other (left) is on top.

Watched the action of the shoes this morning. One time the front shoe will move, another the rear and every so often both would move. Not sounding right to me.

During bleeding (still no air by the way) the fluid is fairly slow moving. But for every one inch of piston travel I am getting 2-3 inches of fluid movement. Just not real fast.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

VSarge · Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:47 pm Post subject:

All right, I am going to change the system out. Plans are to return the current master. Pick up a 5/8" bore with 1 5/16" travel mounted directly to a floor mounted pedal.

Would you run a single line back and then split it at the rear or two line back separately? I will also add flex lines at the wheels since it currently is hard line all the way.

The pedal mounted master will eliminate any problems with linkage crap as well as making it easier to access. Altho I will most likely make a cover for it some how as well. It will still have a remote mounted reservoir.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

BL3Manx · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:27 am Post subject:

VSarge · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:29 am Post subject:

Cool, thanks. I was leaning that way already.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

BL3Manx · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:39 am Post subject:

You don't need the 19 mm dual circuit master you had. I think you can find a more powerful 5/8" masters with an integral reservoir.

http://www.carid.com/wilwood/integral-reservoir-co...oCn1Pw_wcB

VSarge · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:45 am Post subject:

I've been looking at that one as well as one like it but with a remote reservoir. If I go with this one I will also need a residual valve as the master will be below the wheel cylinders.

Sarge
_________________
_________________
VW trike -- FrankenMutt
1971 1600
Swing Arm frame
Stock 4 spd tranny - no reverse gate (crap!)
1966/67 rear brakes wheel cylinders from front of 1966 Bug
1934 Chevy headlight
Custom leading link front end
Ford Ranger rims
P225/60R15 rear tires
GoldWIng front tire
Body is fiberglass nose from semi
One ugly exhaust, heavily rusted, set up for heat??? On a trike??

BL3Manx · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject:

I think a 2 psi residual pressure valve in line would be a cleaner installation than a remote reservoir. At least bleeding should be easy.


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Rat trike from 1971 VW Beetle, brakes!
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