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Motorcycle Rack/Rear Spring Spacers/Air Shocks
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adv rider
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:04 pm    Post subject: Joe Hauler Reply with quote

I carry my dirtbike's all around Washington on the back of my van. I have G.W 0" lift springs all around, and I run 2 spring spacers in the rear. The bike's I carry typically weigh 250-280 range. It does feel a little front end light in some situations, but I never felt unsafe.

I have never measured the height. I will try to post a picture.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
Steelhead wrote:
If that isn't sufficient consider some air-assist shocks. I added the Gabriels (~$75 from amazon). Took about an hour to install and boy do they deliver. Guessing you've seen the samba write-ups on these, but if not check it out. I Carried a motorcycle plus 500lbs inside the van.

.. and then install a rear sway bar (anti-roll bar).

You won't even know there's anything hanging on the back, anymore.


This will happen immediately after I get one of Chris' new front bars installed. When I added a beefier front and a rear to my 77 bus back in 94 (gulp) it was so fun. Huge bang for the buck.
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rmcd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a kit of sorts.

http://www.syncro-bernd-jaeger.de/ENGLISH/Spezialitaten/spezialitaten.html
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another samba build. Go figure another xt.

artnyoga wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=395631
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=395633
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=395640
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=395641

i had someone fabricate a new bumper for me.

I'll start with the requirements

Will :
carries a 225 lb motorcyle
unload time less 2 minutes
not dangerous to foot traffic
ramp hidden or stored on bumper
does not obstruct existing lights
can carry moped or bicycle as well
less than 60 lbs in weight
motorcycle load time less then 5 minutes
tamper proof when bike loaded
loadable in dark conditions
transferable to another van
does not effect car safety

This was built in an experimental version and then the final version. It is not perfect but it does the job. The experimental version hung way far out so that the handle bars would not hit anything. This made the bumper a obstruction to foot traffic. This version alway the rail was a stock motorcycle ramp. This was bolted onto the arms. The end of the arms had the stock bumper bolted onto it. It was I thought they way to have the bumper still there. This was just an experiment. The arms were made from welded L shaped steel to form the box tubing. They inserted further into the van receptor.

Round 2 he used the existing arms and shortened them. He welded muffler piping as the bumper and the mesh is very very heavy duty stuff. It is great to stand on. the mesh added a bunch of weight. The ramp fits under the bumper. The bumper has been powder coated . that probably is the biggest expense.

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rmcd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been thinking about this for a while or anything ...

ftp2leta wrote:
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That was not strong enough, well, it was rocking to much so i modified mine to that:
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The yellow arrow shoes what was added to reinforce the ramp:
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Ben





Sodo wrote:
Sodo wrote:
I'll paint it someday. ................
Putting the bike on is easy, one person I roll it up a ramp then hang the top strap (from the hinge).
Then I drop the "T" section in, just behind the front wheel. The ratchet-tie to the footpeg is angled back slightly,
so when tightened down, it pulls the tire against the "T". The T is pinned in place with a spring-pin
(in photo there is a bolt+nut) and then the ratchet ties pull each forkleg down (at the triple-clamp).
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It slips into two sockets for rigidity.

And it's painted, finally. After thousands of miles, many weekends of dirtbikin' and 3 years of modifications, for faster, better, easier, more ground clearance, the design has settled down for PAINT. Also for the rust to etch the steel so the paint would stick better Wink .

The Black parts on the ground weighs 28 lbs.



ftp2leta wrote:
For the curious one, i have finally bought and highly modified my China made carrier. If installed stock, that thing was scary rocking, i didn't like it at all. On top, even if my hitch was rated to 400 pounds, i reinforced this one.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I use an Air-Cool engine carrier ( i had a few...) and cut this one to make the 2 side reinforcement pieces.

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I had to find a way to find a solution so that thing would stop rocking all over the place. So i had pieces of scaffolding.... yeap, this would strong enough to make sure all would be rock solid. It would also increase the 400 rated pound (moto-carrier).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Final product, very solid and steady.

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Ben



This is where I'm thinking of going since reading about the rear creases due to rear loading.

mblotz wrote:
I built up a system last fall, still yet untested. I did a modified Rocky Mountain Westy bumper front (they do offer one with a receiver though) and rear. typical motorcycle trays. front will be wifes KLX140L (about 160lbs) and rear will be 450EXC (250lbs). when tied in at the corners its very solid, but still untested on a jeep trail. I'm putting some driving lights down low for extra lighting, i think it will work fine

After my last camping/dirtbike weekend with a trailer on a jeep trail, I gave up and went the route i always wanted anyway.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


BlueGrasser wrote:
climberbob1 wrote:

I just uploaded a photo to "the Gallery" - I was trying to attache it to this comment, but evidentlyI'm challenged in doing so.


If you go to your Gallery photos there is a box to the right of each photo that says "Forum code". Cut and paste that and you get this:

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BTW, wouldn't your visibility improve by putting the handlebars on the passenger side???

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SyncroScott
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Highsierra,

Your thread couldn't be timed better or more applicable to my situation! I have a TW200 as well and have been dying to get it on rear rack this summer! The wife just gave me a the thumbs-up to buy Burley's HD hitch with some of our tax return too! Dancing

Got some questions:
- How do you like the cycle rack itself as far as fitting a TDub on it? Pros/Cons?
- How is the lateral movement/rocking side to side?
- Is the "anti-tilt plate" a Burley product as well (I hadn't noticed it on his site)
- How is the steering/front end feel with your TDub loaded?
- How much distance is there between bike seat to the rear hatch, as well as from handle bars to rear window?
- How is the ground clearance/scraping potential with the rack and bike mounted (steeper driveways, curbs, etc.)?
- How well does the bike's rear tire fit in the trough?

And lastly (and only very slightly off topic), what tank bag is that; do you need to remove it to fill up?

Thanks! Love the info and TDub/VDub combo!! Applause
-Scott
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highsierra
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SyncroScott,
-Glad this post is helpful for ya! TDubs are so fun and versatile. Great for camping/adventures so of course it pairs well with a Vanagon.

-Here is a link to the rack I have. Looks like the price went up a bit since I got mine a few years back: http://www.discountramps.com/motorcycle-carrier/p/AMC-400/ I've found that the TW tires fit most conventional dirt bike racks/carriers just fine. I use a separate strap to tie down the rear end, either the rear wheel or the swing arm.

-I got the anti-tilt plate from Discount Ramps too. With that installed and properly tightened, the side to side play is zero. Tightening the straps on the moto helps too. You gotta compress the suspension a good bit so it doesn't bounce around.

-The biggest challenge I am facing right now is getting the van leveled with the load on the back to improve the steering feel. I'll be installing air shocks soon and will report back. Its a WIP.

-There is not a whole lot of room between the TDub and the back window. The handlebars/pegs prevent the hatch from opening more that 6-8" so you basically lose access to the back with the bike on.

-Depending on how high your van sits, scraping may be an issue. My setup is fine for "normal" driving. Even up and down my steep driveway, no problem. I do foresee problems with more extreme off-road situations but honestly, I plan to park the van and rally the T-Dub when the roads turn hairy.

-Are you on TW200Forum?[url] http://tw200forum.com/[/url] Its not as good as the Samba but its a great place for TW info. Wink My handle is Highsierra over there too.

-My tank bag is the "Enduro Tank Bag" from Wolfman. I love it! You do have to unbuckle 2 of the 4 clips to fuel up. No big deal. All of the Wolfman stuff is top-notch! http://wolfmanluggage.com/

I'll be reporting back soon, hopefully with some fully loaded road test results.


Last edited by highsierra on Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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highsierra
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and I love my Burley HD hitch! Great product, bolts on easy and Burley is a great guy to deal with. I'd recommend powder-coating or re-painting your hitch if you want to prevent rusting. Burley was very straight-forward and told me that the rattle can job he puts on them is not bomb-proof. Aside from that, its a quality product.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That bumper above looks very well made, but I wonder about adding all that weight to the back. The further you get from stock design/balance the more odd surprises you get down the road or just worse handling.

What is wrong with a small inexpensive trailer? It loads easier and gives you space to carry extra gas, tools and other camp stuff. Plus you can access the rear hatch. I have a spare tire carrier and a 50 lb tire back there and I'm not even crazy about that.
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Homercules
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an early project photo of my bike rack. I need to take some more of the final product.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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The tray pivots to roll the bike onto then slides back and locks into the receiver.

Rack weighs 25lbs or so and the bike is 175lbs
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highsierra
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davevickery wrote:

What is wrong with a small inexpensive trailer? It loads easier and gives you space to carry extra gas, tools and other camp stuff. Plus you can access the rear hatch. I have a spare tire carrier and a 50 lb tire back there and I'm not even crazy about that.


Honestly, that is a great question. Anyone thinking about hauling a moto should consider a small trailer. My biggest opposition to a trailer is maneuverability. The driveway at my place is so steep, narrow and twisty that a trailer literally is not an option. And a lot of the dirt roads I ramble are the same. "Never drive up anything you aren't willing to back down." is an old off-roading adage that certainly applies. But for all the reasons you state, a trailer is superior in a lot of instances.

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The garbage man got a little off track one day...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks highsierra,

Ordered my hitch from Burley on Friday! That cycle rack looks like a good deal even if it has gone up a few shekels.

Good to know about rustproofing. Its going to be a bit of a project since I have GW's 1st gen rear bumper and I assume I'll have to do a bit of cutting and sealing anyway. Since it is not a show piece I'll probably use POR on the exterior if I can, and Waxoyl/Fluidfilm on any interior surfaces.

-Scott
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long have you had the TW200? Will it cruise at 60 for short periods of time?

I have an XT225 and like it a bunch, but I think a TW200 would be really fun with the huge tires and massive traction they provide. I did put notably bigger tires on my xt, some kenda 270s, cheap and worth it.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackbombay wrote:
How long have you had the TW200? Will it cruise at 60 for short periods of time?

I have an XT225 and like it a bunch, but I think a TW200 would be really fun with the huge tires and massive traction they provide. I did put notably bigger tires on my xt, some kenda 270s, cheap and worth it.


Jackbombay,
I've had the TW for only about a year and a half but have been able to do a good bit of dirt riding in that time. Its really fun, will go 60 mph and beyond, though I rarely go over 50-55 on the pavement. There was some scuttlebutt over on the TW200forum about not taking it over 55 mph or the motor will blow up but that is just hype. Even still, 60-65 is kinda pushing the envelope for a stock TW. Much like my '84 WBX, its happier going slow and enjoying the view.

I've actually been thinking of trying an XT225/250. Really similar bikes in a lot of respects, though I think the XT is slightly better in most if not all categories. The TW is a bit small for me, though the convenience of being able to easily put a foot on the ground is really nice putting around town and when things get interesting on trails.

I'll be driving though Idaho next week. Maybe we should meet up? PM if you're interested.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so the air shocks arrived and I found some time this afternoon to install them. Installation is really simple. I spent as much time routing the hose as I did actually installing the shocks. The supplied air line seemed kinda flimsy so I used some extra fuel line I had laying around and routed the stock air hose through that, then zip-tied it to the van. I found a decent little hole in the body, behind the drivers' rear wheel. This is where I mounted the air valve.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(really tough to get good pics of the hoses, etc under the van so this was all I got)

The kit to adjust the shocks independently was not available in a timely manner from Amazon (1-3 month for delivery) so I mounted everything up with just a single valve. Having an air valve for each shocks has several advantages as I see it. Obviously, you can adjust each shock independently so you can really fine tune ride height and compensate for that Westy-Lean. But the routing for the air hoses is simplified with 2 valves as well. Each shock can have a short air line to a valve somewhere in the wheel-well or similar instead for routing a line from each shock up under the van and find a mutually agreeable meeting place. I opted to run the passenger side air hose under the engine mount cradle over to the drivers' side. I was as careful as I could be to avoid getting too close to the exhaust system. Hopefully the fuel line will provide some protection from excessive heat. Ultimately, if I stick with these air shocks, I'll switch to a dual valve set-up to avoid this issue.

I was surprised at what a small volume of air is used in these shocks. A quick bust of air from a compressor took the pressure from 0-60psi. I could see the van rising as the shocks filled. Kinda fun. Because of the small volume of air, I found it difficult to really fine tune the pressure. The air compressor I was using did not have a pressure gauge so I had to add some then check the psi with a tire gauge. Maybe its just my gauge, but I couldn't avoid some loss of air (and subsequent loss of ride height) every time I checked the pressure. This was annoying and I found myself adding a little more than desired and fudging it from there. I wonder if a bicycle floor pump with a pressure gauge might work well. Anyone tried it?

On to the drive test:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Got the TW loaded, adjusted the air pressure to what seemed about right and took it for a spin. I think I've got about 60psi in there now. The front measures 17 1/2" to 17 3/4" and the front about 18 1/4" to 18 1/2". It was hard for me to find a truly level piece of ground for scientific measurements so consider these numbers "pretty close". A little more fine tuning and it should be right on the money. Driving the van with the bike on there felt great. I've got 45psi on the front tires, 60psi rear. That is more than I usually run, but I am setting up for an extended roadtrip (+/-1,000 miles from Downieville, CA to Missoula, MT via Idaho with sidetrips for camping/T-Dubbing) with an ample supply of gear. Once the suspension is dialed, I may revise tire pressure to suit. Hwy 49, the main/paved road out of town, is full of twists and turns and I drove about 15 miles along the North Fork of the Yuba river for a drive evaluation. Lots of twists and turns to evaluate corning performance, etc. The van really felt like it was just kinda heavy, but because it wasn't saggy in the rear, handling did not suffer. I had to adjust from my usual driving style to slightly slower speeds around corners and had to anticipate braking a little more than normal but overall, I drove basically like I always do and the van performed satisfactorily.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As for rack clearance, the rack extends out from the Burley hitch about 2 feet. At the farthest point out, the rack is 19" off the ground. Doesn't make for a great approach/egress angle but fine for regular driving.

Now...about those brake/tail lights...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Obviously, visibility is an issue. Gonna have to work on that...
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

highsierra wrote:

I'll be driving though Idaho next week. Maybe we should meet up? PM if you're interested.


I'll be out of town working :-/

highsierra wrote:

Now...about those brake/tail lights...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Obviously, visibility is an issue. Gonna have to work on that...


You can get some brake/tail lights from any autoparts store and mount them on the rack, same for blinkers, I plan to do that for my rack. With a bit more time you can order nice LED lights, and just wire them to a 4 way flat trailer plug.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

highsierra wrote:

I've actually been thinking of trying an XT225/250. Really similar bikes in a lot of respects, though I think the XT is slightly better in most if not all categories.


The XT225 is a really nice bike, I don't run it on the highway much, but it will do it ok. The newer 250s are fuel injected and have 22 HP I think, where my 225 has 16 I think, pretty big bump in power there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right on! XT 550, DT 175.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx much for the ride height and driving performance. I've got uk super heavy duty AAA springs and Gabriel hijacker shocks. Bad news is these are NOT turnkey install on a Syncro as they have clearance issues with the fuel filler pipe and the pinch seam om the factory rail. I'll post my solutions to both when done fiddling around with mods and upgrade reinforcements to the trailing arms and shock purchases.

Coincidentally I have an 85 xt 350 that I purchase specifically for this application. Higher displacement with low weight and cheap price. Unfortunately I did not anticipate the horrible carbs and hard starting issues. Always trade offs.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmcd wrote:

Coincidentally I have an 85 xt 350 that I purchase specifically for this application. Higher displacement with low weight and cheap price. Unfortunately I did not anticipate the horrible carbs and hard starting issues. Always trade offs.


If you're looking to upgrade I'd suggest a Kawisaki Super Sherpa, 250 air cooled 4 valve motor, 26 HP I think, sweet bikes. There aren't many around, but I'd love to trade up to one from the XT, they will pull decent on the highway, and they get ~70 MPG if you;re not flogging it. My XT gets 70+ MPG, but is a little low on power at the altitude I live at.
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