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Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups
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CampWesty
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups Reply with quote

Starting a thread for the latest install groups. I figure RG4 and RG5 can be together as they will likely be produced almost simultaneously. RG4 sold out two weeks ago, and by my estimation RG5 already has six deposits reserved. When it hits seven Jim said he would start building. It seems inevitable at this point, but I guess you never know.

I'm part of RG5 and ordered the High Capacity Oil Pan and the OBD II Extension. I was going to buy-in with RG4 but I kept dragging my feet, and then before I knew it, it was sold out. Combined with the "ominous warning" of a $300 price increase, I finally reserved my spot. Laughing

I've done a fair amount of DIY repairs in the past, but searching junk yards for a motor is a new experience for me. I've seen several people from past install groups order motors from a distance, but that makes me nervous dropping $500-ish for a motor sight unseen. At this point I'm leaning towards something local I can see in person but I'm having a hard time finding anything under 80,000 miles. Granted, I'm strictly going by what people are posting on car-part.com (lots of incomplete info), so maybe I simply need to call some places.

From the site, the RG1 Bostig Factory Manual says:
Quote:
$500 is our average price paid for engines, including shipping, under 10k miles and that's over 50+ engines.

That was supposedly last updated August 2013, so I'm hoping it's still true. Here's to searching.
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Phishman068
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the midst of replacing my engine in my v2 g6 bostig conversion for reasons of personal stupidity (I broke off a lot of bolts.....) and just purchased an engine on Monday.

Monday morning I said "I'm going To buy an engine" and drove home with one in the afternoon. Calling a few places within an hour from me, found a handful of engines with 10,000-30,000 miles, eventually settling on an extremely clean and complete 2003 with 20,000 miles for $300.
They really are out there, available, and cheap!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so wait does bostig send you a motor, or do you find your own motor? i am a noob to the bostig conversions,but i guess i assumed they sourced the actual motor and shipped it to you completed? or do they just sell a kit for adapting a specific motor liek the sub?
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turbotransporter
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:48 am    Post subject: Bostig RG4 & 5 Reply with quote

I signed up in January so I'm in RG4. My Bostig conversion will be going in our 87 Westy Weekender, manual trans and I have a new crate engine that I've had stashed in my shed for 5 or 6 years.

My local wrecking yard has 5 applicable used Zetec engines but all over 100K miles.

I've been able to purchase a few used parts from them that I'll need for my crate engine like the heat shield and PS pump w/pulley and I'm hoping to get my Ranger ECU and Contour alternator from them as well.

My local FORD Dealer closed a few years ago so I've purchased my FORD specific parts on line from fortpartsgiant.com with positive results.

At this time it appears that I will be doing my conversion sometime in May or early June. I've got to time it around my wife's bicycle events as she expects me to have our van running tip top so it can be her personal SAG wagen and we camp in it on overnight events.

I'm located 7 miles West of Seattle in North Kitsap County and I've done two previous Bostig conversions for others so if I can assist folks with info, photos, help, whatever, I certainly will try! I have a growing list of curious local Vanagon friends that want to observe/help so I'm thinking of having a beer per hour cover charge Laughing

Edit: Jim and the Bostig Boys provide incredibly detailed instructions and customer support! My offer to help others is not meant to diminish Bostig's awesomeness in any way but to perhaps provide a little "hands on" assistance/encouragement/tools to less mechanically inclined/equipted folks.
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CampWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
eventually settling on an extremely clean and complete 2003 with 20,000 miles for $300.

Nice to hear there are still good deals around. I figured as much. Like I said before, I think my problem is I just need to call people. car-part.com leaves you with lots of questions. I live in the Detroit area, so you would think the Motor City would be a great spot to find Ford engines.

Quote:
so wait does bostig send you a motor, or do you find your own motor? i am a noob to the bostig conversions,but i guess i assumed they sourced the actual motor and shipped it to you completed? or do they just sell a kit for adapting a specific motor liek the sub?

You're buying a kit, documentation, and support from Bostig. Just like any of the other DIY options, you have to find your own engine and some other common parts.

turbotransporter - If I lived near you I would probably take you up on your offer at some point. I still need to locate an engine lift/stand and some other basic tools. I'm fine with buying stuff, but borrowing is always a nice option. Hopefully I can find and then resell the engine lift through Craigslist. My garage setup isn't ideal either; it's actually an old barn from the 1800s. Not sure if there is enough vertical clearance. I may need to explore other options, or just do the work in the driveway.

How do people transport their engines? Do junk yards deliver? I have an open-air utility trailer that I pictured using, but I'm not sure how I would secure the engine while driving.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric,
Lots of zetec engines in the New England area, one in Maine with 14k for around $600. I picked up mine and the yard loaded it into the back of my Astrovan on an old tire. I tied it to the spare and drove it home. They weigh about 300 pounds. The yards will ship but it costs about $200. If you don't have an engine hoist, slide it down some old 2x6's to unload it.

The zetecs are a 200k engine, so I wouldn't sweat it much. The beauty of the Bostig conversion is that if the engine does go South, pick up another and slap it in.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more in for RG 5 ... just paid my deposit.
Chris
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess the days of zero mile crate motors for $1k are gone
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
i guess the days of zero mile crate motors for $1k are gone


I have three now (not for sale) and have paid less than a grand for each, but that is me and I highly doubt anyone else is scoring like that.

More will be released from Cosworth, someday, but no one knows when.
MSRP when they do will be around $1500 USD.
All mine have brand new clutches, flywheels, EGRs....all that can be sold off as you do not need them, to offset the cost of the engine.

I just picked up 3 motors with less than 70k miles on them, in excellent shape, with new components like the thermostat housing, coil and wires, injectors....for $450 each, a smoking deal in today's market.
The source I have specializes in Focus models and has everything you need under the sun for them.
A quick Google of the subject will give you more than three such sources and I have dealt with all of them, without issue.
Know what you want, READ and USE the methods of acquiring these motors and parts as listed in the Bostig manual.
Come off like an authority or sound picky and you will not be offered anything that you can work with and will cost you an arm and a leg.
Again, read in the Bostig manual on how to purchase an engine.

One of my personal crate engines is getting decked out with every piece of billet available, the head reworked, after market throttle body and intake, 200 amp alternator and custom header.
One sweet Zetec Exclamation
Pictures and build will be shown in great detail after all of my client's vans are finished by July 15 of this summer.
Than the fun begins working on my vans again, finally Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why oh why did they pick a ford engine, it's a awesome thing they are doing, but why a ford engine Crying or Very sad
for me and my budget it would never be an option, but if it were Crying or Very sad
now that they are not refining their kits, what are they up too, any idea ? you know what they say about idle hands Laughing

they never took their kits to CARB, like stephan did, and made it smog legal here ??
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
why oh why did they pick a ford engine, it's a awesome thing they are doing, but why a ford engine Crying or Very sad
for me and my budget it would never be an option, but if it were Crying or Very sad
now that they are not refining their kits, what are they up too, any idea ? you know what they say about idle hands Laughing


Jim is a lone wolf now...all the others have gone.
He is working on projects, but it is up to him to discuss those as I am not at liberty to discuss them.

Why the 2.0 Zetec, because it rocks, is easy to work on, parts are cost effective and still, there are plenty of them around to get going.
No brand new crate motors are currently not available from the source, but they will be as it is a world motor.

You snooze, you loose.
Many snatched up the good stuff when many others were spending time dissing Bostig, Jim and the work they have done.

This complete package is one of the best designed coversions I have ever seen for a vehicle and I have seen a lot of them.
The cradle, adapter plate and skid system is second to none for the Syncro and by that alone has made the Bostig conversion my #1 choice for a Vanagon.

I am soooo glad it is not allowed in California, half the Vanagons there would have had it and all the good parts would have dried up in a NY minute Exclamation
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morymob
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the now bostic kit cost, all, except eng??ok

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morymob wrote:
What is the now bostic kit cost, all, except eng??


www.bostig.com
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morymob
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok

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morymob
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok

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insyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morymob wrote:
What is the now bostic kit cost, all, except eng??


Worth every single penny Exclamation

Make sure to check out the add on products offered not as part of the kit.
In the last two groups some of them have been added and included in the kit, but not all.

Most pictures of the installed kit, especially mine show add on accessories not included in the kits and need to be purchased separately.

Just trying to help and again, worth every last penny.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse the duplicate posts,this tablet does it sometimes, site won't let me delete after thislong. $6k without eng (going by shown kit) is too rich for my blood, have to rebuild one of my engines when the time comes.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will be $10k into any conversion on the level of refinement that the Bostig kit offers....period.

Sure, people post ridiculously low conversion costs...they usually post again shortly after with all sorts of issues.

Bostig converts, drive and enjoy Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
why oh why did they pick a ford engine, it's a awesome thing they are doing, but why a ford engine Crying or Very sad
for me and my budget it would never be an option, but if it were Crying or Very sad
now that they are not refining their kits, what are they up too, any idea ? you know what they say about idle hands Laughing

they never took their kits to CARB, like stephan did, and made it smog legal here ??


This is easy. Because I picked an engine based on its merits, not brand.

There is no other 4 cylinder engine, that is as compact, robust, simple, and available as the zetec. Those are all vital attributes if you're trying to deliver a system that novices and DIYers can build that is reliable. Garbage in, garbage out. I could not have built an equivalent system using a VW or subaru engine, either of which would have been much more amenable to the demographics that owns vanagons and much easier to sell/market. But I have more than enough results to prove it was a solid choice, and continues to be. Nobody else in the market comes close to supporting as many running conversions or rebuilds nor could they claim to as very few sell something as complete either.

I'm working on power adders, and have been since 07, but getting a reliable power adder setup suitable for novices and DIYers is exponentially harder than even the engine swap, which is why they don't exist in the aftermarket for any application, OEMs have struggled with this as well. Even Ariel couldn't do it for their Atom. But folks will see how all the work/experience will pay off, just as they do with the kits. I'm just about there, should be getting beta groups together this season Smile

We went through the entire process of CARB application etc, and got to lab testing, at which point the catalytic converter manufacturer we were using had their EO rescinded, and it killed our application. That cost me about $15k-$20k. So I have not tried again. I'm looking into the out of state reg, just as one does for buying an Ariel Atom, and you can have whatever you like.

There are always refinements happening as well, just not major revisions anymore. The plateau has been reached for diminishing returns on dollars invested, and the market is already contracting from age and as fewer and fewer remain on the roads. Pricing on used vanagons reflects this as well.

This is one of the reasons it's just me now (in addition to the fact that you couldn't survive for very long or into old age on the money we were able to pay ourselves) so Brady wisely moved on to greener pastures, and was finally able to get a nice van, just as his syncro begins to literally fall apart. He will be getting the second power adder prototype to try and destroy it as only he can. That could actually be a really simple answer to the original question, why this engine? Because Brady could have destroyed anything else with much greater frequency and vastly more money to recover... it's the only conversion where that outcome isn't catastrophic in terms of costing huge money again if you end up with a worst case. Having $3k-$4k tied up just in the engine alone is a major disadvantage to all the other solutions, but people don't understand this until they are already screwed, and do not have a choice in the matter. Good money goes chasing after the bad.

But If I had chosen anything else, I guarantee I wouldn't be here typing this, nor could I support the fleet I currently do and still do anything like work on power adders for them... there wouldn't have been as many happy customers, or as many miles traveled... which is the whole damn point. Simplicity is worth it's weight (or lack of weight?) in gold, and any system designer who tells you different isn't someone you should hire.

Cheers,

Jim Akiba
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sold Jim.
Mounting the oil sump from you on Kyle's build right now.
What a piece of work.
I posted the construction pictures of the sump, the welds and the pickup tube to my Instagram.
What a well done and clean unit you have designed.
Same goes for the cradle, skids....yes and I have to even comment positively on the adapter plate, even those they are not my fav.

The entire package fits together so beautifully.

I did pull the manual from the net and have Staples print me up an 11"x14" spiral bound copy.
I have made my notations in the manual, a few things need updating and I know you are on it.
I will also be commenting on the site under each section and posting some pictures I have taken to try and help the next round of installers.

Again, nice job on the entire package.
No one else offers anywhere near this fit and finish for the Vanagon...and trust me, I've seen and worked on them all, but now no longer support certain engines and conversions products as the work involved to make them fit and work isn't worth my time any longer.

Looking forward to the adder project, but am very pleased as is.

Dylan
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