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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: Disc brakes on stock beam question |
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I have a 64 vert with a cb performance adjustable beam with stock spindles and EMPI disc brakes. The beam does not adjust back to stock height. I can get the original stock beam back from the PO. Can I keep the disc brakes and use with stock wheels, or do I need to go back to stock brakes? Help! Bob _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3553 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Is the CBPerformance beam narrowed? Most front disc brake kits push the wheels out.
Brakes will fit fine on a stock beam |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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The CB beam is narrowed 2". My concern is that the wheels will be in the correct geometry as stock...and not having a wider "track" than stock, ie " sticking out too far" ... The car had wider tires in both front and rear, and the beam was adjusted most of the way down . Just don' t want to assemble and then find out too wide, take apart, and have to find backing plates and reassemble. Thank you for your advice. Bob _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have CB disc brakes on stock beam in my oval. And stock wheels with 155/80-15.
Since I drive with original oval fenders, the wheels rubs a little in the fenders when cornering and hitting a dump at the same time. Or braking hard when turning.
So I think it will work well on a newer beetle, since the fenders are higher (about 20mm, I think, from 59) _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Kjell, thank you for your post. Are the pictures of your car before or after you installed the disc brakes? Could you take a measurement for me measuring the distance from the outside of one front tire to the outside of the other (track measurement) even though I am running 165's, the difference will be minimal. I am sure others have done this modification...quite a few lookers.... But not many comments. You can find all kinds of information in the search mode on dropping ... But I can 't find anything on what you have done, or what I am attempting to do! _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: |
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This picture is with the disc brakes:
It is in Hessisch Oldendorf 2 years ago.
My car is stored away for the winter some miles away, dont know when I will go there next time. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Kjell thank you for the picture. The rubbing may be due to the wheel base
( tracking) being a little wider in the front due to the disc brakes if the tire is rubbing on the fender during tight turns. My guess is that the disc brake assembly moves the tire and wheel assembly "out" about an inch on each side... You have a beautiful car! Thank you again, and stay warm! _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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turboscotty Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2009 Posts: 61 Location: Chester, VA
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I have a stock width beam and disc brakes but I'm running 195/50r 15 on the front. |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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That would make the difference in space to most likely cause the rubbing. Thank you so much for all of this information. I am going to transfer the disc brakes to the original beam first, and see what happens, it just might be OK. Thank you so much, Bob _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks
If I had your front fenders (64-fenders), the front tires would not rub on my car.
I have now bought a set of T2 rims because they have higher offset. Think that will solve the problem with the rubbing in the front.
The plan at the rear, is to put in a 1500 transmission with long axels,will also suit the larger ET on the T2 rims. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3553 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:52 am Post subject: |
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If you install the stock beam and disc brakes, then yes your wheel track will be wider than stock. If you are at stock height, it will not rub, but the tires will stick out of the fenders. With stock smoothies and tires it will not be too bad.
Are you sure you are adjusting the beam correctly? the adjustable beam should get you close to stock. |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but still 1 1/2 to 2" too low... Beam will not adjust up any higher. Thank you! Now I am thinking just pull the disc brakes and install the stock backing plates and related hardware. Bob _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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txoval wrote: |
If you install the stock beam and disc brakes, then yes your wheel track will be wider than stock. If you are at stock height, it will not rub, but the tires will stick out of the fenders. |
I cant see why the tires will stick out of the fenders? Mine dont, its inside the fender as you see in the picture I put in earlier of my car. The reason they are sometimes rubbing, is because they are oval fenders with a different shape. Oval fenders have the same width as newer fenders, but are deeper down in the wheelarche. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Ok guys... I am going to try the disc brakes first and see what happens...if too wide then will just switch to drums! This way we will all know....Bob... Thanks for the debate! _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3553 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said above, with stock smoothies/tires you should be fine.
I'd rather be 1-2" low and have disc brakes...its a major difference in braking |
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Bmiller Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Canberra, Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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How did you go with the swap? I'm curious to see what the results were.
Thanks |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Not there yet... Still waiting for the beam from the PO... He is an older gentleman, and I don't want to rush him...said he was going to clean it up this week and get a shipping estimate. Patience....working on my wife's 63 anyway, putting it back together, is a total restoration.. And patience , patience. I know I'm getting older, but seems like everything takes me longer than it used to.... But, I must admit that I have become an anal perfectionist with everything. First time I have done almost everything myself...just got tired of having to do everything over 3x after someone I paid to do something didn't do it right. I go to bed every night now with the bently by the bed table! _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Not there yet... Still waiting for the beam from the PO... He is an older gentleman, and I don't want to rush him...said he was going to clean it up this week and get a shipping estimate. Patience....working on my wife's 63 anyway, putting it back together, is a total restoration.. And patience , patience. I know I'm getting older, but seems like everything takes me longer than it used to.... But, I must admit that I have become an anal perfectionist with everything. First time I have done almost everything myself...just got tired of having to do everything over 3x after someone I paid to do something didn't do it right. I go to bed every night now with the bently by the bed table! Bugman Dave has been a great help to me, answering lots of trivial questions! _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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The Volkswagen Ranch Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2002 Posts: 700 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I ended up buying a remanufactured german stock beam, and kept the disc brakes...the distance and clearence of the tires in the wheel wells is bone stock...also had the rear re-indexed back to stock, as she was also low on the driver's side rear. All in all, my Ruby was sitting almost 2 1/2 " too low, all the way around....amazing how much better she looks now in my eyes. As soon as I finish Carolyn's 63 vert, Ruby is next. When I bought Ruby, I wanted to try a lowered car, as I never had one before, and glad I got it out of my system. An original convertible still looks the best to me.....and she drive's great too. Will also have to get rid of the gas shocks and go back to oil.....I thank everyone for their comments and input in helping me make this decision...was scared that the wheels would stick out of the wells, and look stupid. Bob _________________ 1963 Convertible (Lizzie) and 1964 Convertible (Patience) 1976 Westfalia (Winnie) |
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