Fuel Delivery Problems

[ztnoo]

I got the '73 engine that hadn't run in ten years to run...for a while.
Then some other problems began to appear.
I had significant gas leaks in the left manifold boot joining the dual port manifold with the singe tube manifold.
Also I had a leak around the bottom of the immediate flange on which the fuel pump sits.

I determined a little top end maintenance was in order.
I removed the fuel pump and found a vertical crack in the intermediate flange along a mounting hole.
So I ordered a new flange, gaskets, and a new fuel pump (to have on hand in case the old one wouldn't work on assembly) from a VW supplier here in Indiana.
Also I replaced the dual port manifold to head gasket on each side and the rubber manifold boots.
I took the carb off the manifold and opened it up to make sure I didn't have a bunch of sediment and crap in the bowl which might lead to fuel problems, and cleaned it up.
I reassembled the carb with a new main gasket.


I made sure to check the maximum deck height on the fuel pump pushrod...right at 13 mm...just what it should be.
Turned the motor over by hand to make sure the fuel pump pushrod was moving up and down. Everything looked good.
Put everything back together.
Put the new fuel pump on, hooked all the lines up, timed the engine with a static light and tried it. Nothing.
Pulled the output line (to the carb) off the and turned the motor over with the starter to check to see if it was pumping.
Nada. Nothing.

Changed back to the old fuel pump.
Tried the same procedures. Nada.
I even tried several times to "prime" both fuel pumps by taking the line off the side of the carb coming from the output side of the pump and filling it with gas. Filled the carb bowl while I was at it.
Boom, it would run, but would then die after about 1 1/2 minutes.
Did this four times with the same result.
Apparently it was only running on fuel in the carb float bowl.
I've come to the conclusion I have fuel pumps which aren't working.
There is gas to the inlet side of the pumps, but no output.

My old pump is an angled model, The pushrod is a 4 1/4" rod.
The new fuel pump is an upright model and I have to loosen the manifolds to get it in and out.
This new pump has a lever end which is farther up in the body of the pump than the old one.
The old pump's lever protrudes just slightly below the bottom of the pump.
I don't think I have a long enough rod to actuate the new pump.
The part number on the box it came in says 113-127-025 C and it's from Brazil.
Neither pump has a number on the pump itself.

So I'm dead in the water right now.
Hope someone can offer some advice and guidance on how to resolve my problem.

[ztnoo]

Gentlemen,
Since I've had no particularly helpful responses today from the three Thing forums I review and post at occasionally, allow me the freedom to answer my own question, arrived at by a personal sense of pressure to perform for myself and the owner, logic, reason, questioning a local shop working on a Manx with a Porsche engine with fuel delivery problems, and lots and lots of trial and error and wrenching.
As Captain Spalding told me..... it's all about the process of discovery.
Holy Sheep DoDo, Batman.....today I discovered more than I ever imagined ....or wanted to know for that matter.
But I know it now, locked in stone, same as "front is front, and rear is rear".

Se você pensar você leu-o todo em thesamba.com, revê esta situação.
or.....
Wenn sie denken, haben sie es aller an thesamba.com, wiederholen diese situation gelesen.
(If you think you've read it all at thesamba.com, review this situation).
Either way.....pretty nutty.

Thought about the problem all day.
Had fuel to the pump, rod height correct, rod actuated when engine was cranked by hand, but no fuel to the carb.
No output from the pump.
??? What the hell is going on?
Calls to Mike Basso and the guy who sold me the pump in southern Indiana only raised more questions.
Different pumps, different rods (now I understand there is actually a third length, besides the 4" and 4 1/4" rods, caused by a factory screw up in machining the cases).
What works with what?
I got lots of real iffy and mushy answers.

But the more I thought about it, I knew I had to go get the pump (a mile away) and look at it, and really analyze the part.
Brought the damned thing home to my computer desk and fiddled with it.
Let's see.....what's the intake port and what's the output port?
I moved the lever with my thumb.
Huuummm......well I couldn't feel the difference on my carpenter's weathered fingers, so I put it to my face to sense which port did what.
Still no luck.
So I put my big fat tongue on the part and actuated the pump lever to determine what was what.
After several tries, I concluded which was the intake port on my new pump, and which was the output port to the carb.

OK.....so what's the problem?
Well.......uh.....duh..... the old pump's intake port was on the bottom, the output port on the top.
The new pump?...the intake was on the TOP, the output on the BOTTOM!
Eureka!
EXACTLY OPPOSITE of the original fuel pump ports!
No directions enclosed in the box, just the Brazilian pump.
Portuguese logic.....problaby mixed with lots of German engineering and production pressures.

Anyone ever read about this anywhere?
I sure haven't, and have heard no one discuss the matter.

A word to the wise and the rest of us struggling dumb asses....never assume anything......lay your hands on it and check it out.
That's what I had to do with the cv bolts on the '74 Thing.
If you just assume by reason what you observed before will be the same, there must be lots of Brazilian Portuguese speakers who are laughing their asses off on a daily basis at US VW parts buyers.

Anyway, the engine that remained unstarted for ten years ran tonight for thirty minutes without something else imploding.

Overall, it's been a pretty good day in Hoosierland.

ztnoo

[suntour]

If it makes you feel any better I have similar problems with those damn fuel pumps.

I once when to AutoZone and asked for a fuel pump for a 73’ Thing. After the usual stupid look and disbelief there was such a car ever manufactured I then asked for a fuel pump from a 73’ Bug. I bolted it up and tried to start the car. The engine caught and started for about 10 seconds before it stopped dead.

Upon inspection I realized that I had the longer rod for the fuel pump but a pump for a shorter rod. It snapped the plunger thing inside the pump in a matter of seconds. I felt like an idiot and was out $19 buck for a 10 second start up. Oh well. Live and learn.
_________________
Order of the Voodoo Spoon

[ztnoo]

suntour
Thanks for your admission of some of the same problems regarding fuel pumps.
All I can figure is that the other readers are either laughing their buns off at my green, novice experience with "those damn fuel pumps", or they have had similar problems and are remaining mute on the experience.
I can't believe I'm the only one who has encountered this situation.
Cie la vie.
ztnoo