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1972 battery ground cable strap connection location
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crownline Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran mine down under and connected to the mustash bar mount hanger. Which bolts directly to the frame.
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
I just cannot accept that VW grounded the battery to the engine like that. It just looks too bush league.


Gary, come-on, think about it. The starter is the heaviest drawing item in the car's circuit. The ability to allow an easy return route for the ground circuit is smart thinking. On my '71 bay, I have the ground cable, a 4ga cable from O'Reilly, attached to the lower starter stud. Maybe coincidental, but I have yet to replace my clutch cable since this mod. And I start my cars up in neutral and sit at traffic lights in neutral also.
Hope this helps, Bill.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockerarm wrote:
aeromech wrote:
I just cannot accept that VW grounded the battery to the engine like that. It just looks too bush league.


Gary, come-on, think about it. The starter is the heaviest drawing item in the car's circuit. The ability to allow an easy return route for the ground circuit is smart thinking. On my '71 bay, I have the ground cable, a 4ga cable from O'Reilly, attached to the lower starter stud. Maybe coincidental, but I have yet to replace my clutch cable since this mod. And I start my cars up in neutral and sit at traffic lights in neutral also.
Hope this helps, Bill.


If it's so great why did VW only do that to the 1972 bus (apparently)
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
If it's so great why did VW only do that to the 1972 bus (apparently)


The other years require a shorter cable, maybe a 10c savings per vehicle coming off the line. I swapped my 74 Transporter over to using the early system maybe 15 years ago, not something I have any reason to regret doing.

After experiencing a clutch cable failure due to a bad ground strap, my '77 is now swapped over to the early system as well.


Last edited by Wildthings on Sat May 09, 2015 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
aeromech wrote:
If it's so great why did VW only do that to the 1972 bus (apparently)


The other years require a shorter cable, maybe a 10c savings per vehicle coming off the line. I swapped my 74 Transporter over the using the early system maybe 15 years ago, not something I have any reason to regret doing.

After experiencing a clutch cable failure due to a bad ground strap, my '77 is now swapped over to the early system as well.


I run two ground straps frame to engine, and dielectric grease where the battery ground strap bolts to the chassis.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run two ground straps frame to engine

I'm not saying that this isn't a good idea. In fact, I did it in my Toyota truck. I'm just saying that grounding the entire bus electrical system through the whole engine from tranny nose to fan case doesn't seem like a sound idea. If I had an engine here I'd use my fluke and measure the resistance between the tranny nose and the fan case. I'll bet it's higher than sending electrical returns back to the battery only through the frame. Now, as far as grounding the starter goes what Rockerarm did sounds like it would work well for the starter
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt that the resistance between the starter nose cone and the fan shroud can be measured with the meters most of us own.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to reiterate so there is no confusion. 1972 Negative battery strap (cable) was connected to the battery tray with a brown/white wire that ran to the diagnostic plug.
Makes you wonder why they abandoned this idea?


Xevin wrote:
Gary, my 72 ground is attached to the block like Ian's picture. But I have a mystery cable with a battery terminal clamp on one end and the other is bolted to the battery tray near the side marker. Always thought that was the orginal ground. I don't use it because the tray is cRusty. Thought the PO added the current strap.


Tcash wrote:
Both diagrams depict the battery being installed with the Neg terminal toward the rear of the vehicle.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_8_71_1700.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_8_71.jpg

Thanks to mayor ratwell. "09/28/04 Early battery negative was bolted to hole in battery tray. Yuck."
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

72 bus in original condition

ratwell wrote:
68-72 bolted this way. 73-79 bolted above the battery in the front.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



72 ground strap

72 trans strap
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Electron Flow Reply with quote

This discussion makes me think of a question I asked my teacher in JC.
Which way do the Electrons flow? His reply was science didn't know and it's magic.
This will give you an idea of how long ago I was in school. Because the flow of Electrons has been discovered and get this one, Lucas had it right.

Google
Electrons are negatively charged, and so are attracted to the positive end of a battery and repelled by the negative end. So when the battery is hooked up to something that lets the electrons flow through it, they flow from negative to positive.

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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I doubt that the resistance between the starter nose cone and the fan shroud can be measured with the meters most of us own.


I'll bet my fluke 83 could do it. It's probably a few ohms.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
I doubt that the resistance between the starter nose cone and the fan shroud can be measured with the meters most of us own.


I'll bet my fluke 83 could do it. It's probably a few ohms.


I would think more in the order of .000001 ohms Wink
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then, this will be interesting. Remember that every time you bolt something on like the fan case or the engine to transmission, you don't get a great mate. Especially if parts have been painted like fan cases. I'm really interested in finding out the answer here. I guess anyone with a type 4 could run out to their driveway with a multimeter and measure this pretty quickly. I have an 091 here but no engine right now.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add loose bell housing fasteners and some oil and you can loose complete connection between the trans and engine case. Ask me how I know.

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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference, the ONLY way to accurately measure real low resistance is to (1) use a meter with 4-wire resistance measuring capability (various high end Fluke and HP meters support this), or (2) do it the hard way: pass a known current (100 ma works well) through the resistance and measure the resulting voltage drop. [This is what the 4-wire measurement method effectively does. The current source is contained inside the meter, hence the extra pair of test leads.]

R = E / I

If I = 0.1 amp, then R = E x 10.

Here's the schematic (from the Gallery) for the current source

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Trim R1 for exactly 100 ma current.

12 volts works well for the supply voltage.

Regular 2-wire ohmmeters (including my Fluke 8020B) can't accurately measure anything below, say, 10 ohms. Too many error sources.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are crazy! You use a "voltage drop" test in VDC to figure that kind of stuff out.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That tells you if you have a problem. If you want to accurately measure and quantify the magnitude of the problem, you'll need to use a more advanced method.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I did today
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paint the ground on the chassis or put some liquid electrical tape on it, so it does not corrode.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-insta...pe%20lowes

Surprised you did not go to the battery tray.
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Last edited by Tcash on Sun May 10, 2015 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just measured with my Fluke from battery fan ground ( 8 mm bolt on right side) to the blower fan mount- I get 0.4 ohms. This goes thru fan housing, engine, tranny, tranny strap, body. From the transmission bell to the heater box is 0.2 ohms. Probably same to the battery ground. So-if you ground to the body then you double the resistance, just a tiny amount but measurable.
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Malokin Martin
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one is going to ground to the body, it would make sence to ground it on the vertical panel between the light housing and the engine lid. That way the straps are tidy. Just an idea. Coincidentally, this was where my 72 was grounded (likely not OG). Yours does look nice though!
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