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Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I hope you are shooting for high compression. They will be fine, the guys saying they won't seal are either inexperienced or in the business of selling new heads. Little holes on the outer edges are common with heavily flycut heads.
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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When my CC kit gets here and I have some extra time I'll measure them and find out what the volume is.
No, originally I wasn't shooting for a high ratio, maybe 8.5-1, 9-1 at most. Obviously, that isn't going to happen with these heads without using copper head shims and keeping the deck height on the higher end of the recommended limit. |
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| My main concern is if I use these heads, and with the likelihood of having a ridiculous compression ratio, is what fuel would I even need to run in my car? I'm almost thinking pump premium won't be enough. |
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Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:52 am Post subject: |
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They look like they are cut for E85 or race fuel above 100 octane.
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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oh so roy does not know what hes talking about when he says there junk mmm inexperienced you must be talking about your self .did you not see the big hole on the one head or are you blind too hes running thin wall 92s spencerfvee
| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Yes, I hope you are shooting for high compression. They will be fine, the guys saying they won't seal are either inexperienced or in the business of selling new heads. Little holes on the outer edges are common with heavily flycut heads. |
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Boolean
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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The holes are likely not a problem sealingwise. They may limit heat transfer to the fins though.
Never liked heads like that myself. But I'm sure they work.
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not running thin wall 92's, I'll be running thick wall 88's. I'm going to have DPR make me a 74mm crank and build an 1800 mini-stroker. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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That would be too small CC for these heads, unless it is supposed to be a high rpm engine. I think. To find out, CC the intake ports.
If they will not take the heads back, sell them in the classifieds here. |
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Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
oh so roy does not know what hes talking about when he says there junk mmm inexperienced you must be talking about your self .did you not see the big hole on the one head or are you blind too hes running thin wall 92s spencerfvee
| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Yes, I hope you are shooting for high compression. They will be fine, the guys saying they won't seal are either inexperienced or in the business of selling new heads. Little holes on the outer edges are common with heavily flycut heads. |
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You weren't capable of reading to the end of the sentence? Roy is in the business of selling heads and will say just about anything try to do so - including contradicting himself and attacking people who try to support him. When all we had were OEM heads such holes were common when flycutting deep at larger bores. As there is still plenty of area to seal the head and it is not a prime mechanical support they will work fine. The problem the OP faces is that such a deep flycut will leave him with a very small chamber, which means either a huge deck or running very high octane. It doesn't matter that you wouldn't understand that, as I doubt you read much past the first sentence again.
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quokka42 wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
oh so roy does not know what hes talking about when he says there junk mmm inexperienced you must be talking about your self .did you not see the big hole on the one head or are you blind too hes running thin wall 92s spencerfvee
| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Yes, I hope you are shooting for high compression. They will be fine, the guys saying they won't seal are either inexperienced or in the business of selling new heads. Little holes on the outer edges are common with heavily flycut heads. |
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You weren't capable of reading to the end of the sentence? Roy is in the business of selling heads and will say just about anything try to do so - including contradicting himself and attacking people who try to support him. When all we had were OEM heads such holes were common when flycutting deep at larger bores. As there is still plenty of area to seal the head and it is not a prime mechanical support they will work fine. The problem the OP faces is that such a deep flycut will leave him with a very small chamber, which means either a huge deck or running very high octane. It doesn't matter that you wouldn't understand that, as I doubt you read much past the first sentence again. |
Excuse me? Who the F do you think you are accusing me of giving false information to sell more heads? When did I offer to sell anyone heads? I am one of the only vendors on here that says you can use just about anything and make it work. I was actually accused of that in another thread. These heads are garbage. Why? Because when you need to flycut a set of heads so deep that you need to cut .200" in to the fins, the heads normally had some serious problems. Now, if these heads were the OP and he had gotten them rebuilt for a cheap price, hey go for it. The point here is that he went somewhere and a shop sold him these heads. They are the ones that will say anything to sell a set of crap they had laying on the floor. Look at my website and see why I say that people who want single port heads and type 4 heads need to send their cores. Why? Because all the cores I have look like this and I refuse to sell them. I could care less about whether this guy buys heads from me or not. The thread asked for opinions and I gave mine. Since I've built and rebuilt more heads than everyone on this thread combined times 10, I think I've earned the right to give my opinion. You? You're not even worth my time with your BS. BTW, maybe YOU should try reading what I said. I never even said they wouldn't seal smartguy. The only way to tell for sure is to bolt them on and do a leakdown test.
Why don't you keep your insults to yourself and go away. No one on here cares or needs that crap.
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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roy don't let him get to you ..hes not worth it ..hes just one of those samba gods that's all ways right and your all ways wrong. he allways puts people down to make. to him self look better.than others . he can dish it out but he cant take it .when some gives it back to him. the best thing that ever came from down under is jagger the drummer .and hes got a big mouth on him too lol lol . to me a person who post on a forum and asks for info. should beware that the truth might be hard to take . also you might want to read a book called how to hot rod vws by bill fisher .or read gene berg book on fly cutting heads for 92 cyls . .roy I know you have working on vws for a long time .so have I over 45 years .we have seen it all .as you know some people get and some people never get it .this is turning into a pissing contest .and no one wins . all I can say is good luck on using those heads I hope they work out for you. I am out of here befor evertt locks this forum down peace spencerfvee
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Quokka42 wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
oh so roy does not know what hes talking about when he says there junk mmm inexperienced you must be talking about your self .did you not see the big hole on the one head or are you blind too hes running thin wall 92s spencerfvee
| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Yes, I hope you are shooting for high compression. They will be fine, the guys saying they won't seal are either inexperienced or in the business of selling new heads. Little holes on the outer edges are common with heavily flycut heads. |
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You weren't capable of reading to the end of the sentence? Roy is in the business of selling heads and will say just about anything try to do so - including contradicting himself and attacking people who try to support him. When all we had were OEM heads such holes were common when flycutting deep at larger bores. As there is still plenty of area to seal the head and it is not a prime mechanical support they will work fine. The problem the OP faces is that such a deep flycut will leave him with a very small chamber, which means either a huge deck or running very high octane. It doesn't matter that you wouldn't understand that, as I doubt you read much past the first sentence again. |
Excuse me? Who the F do you think you are accusing me of giving false information to sell more heads? When did I offer to sell anyone heads? I am one of the only vendors on here that says you can use just about anything and make it work. I was actually accused of that in another thread. These heads are garbage. Why? Because when you need to flycut a set of heads so deep that you need to cut .200" in to the fins, the heads normally had some serious problems. Now, if these heads were the OP and he had gotten them rebuilt for a cheap price, hey go for it. The point here is that he went somewhere and a shop sold him these heads. They are the ones that will say anything to sell a set of crap they had laying on the floor. Look at my website and see why I say that people who want single port heads and type 4 heads need to send their cores. Why? Because all the cores I have look like this and I refuse to sell them. I could care less about whether this guy buys heads from me or not. The thread asked for opinions and I gave mine. Since I've built and rebuilt more heads than everyone on this thread combined times 10, I think I've earned the right to give my opinion. You? You're not even worth my time with your BS. BTW, maybe YOU should try reading what I said. I never even said they wouldn't seal smartguy. The only way to tell for sure is to bolt them on and do a leakdown test.
Why don't you keep your insults to yourself and go away. No one on here cares or needs that crap. |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Awesome thread.
I dont know shit about heads, but personally, I wouldn't use thise.things. they look like garbage.....if they look so bad that youre questionjng whether they'll seal? Dont use em. And yeah, even I can see how small thise chambers are.....waaay to small. You going to run an 11 to 1 cr for an 1800 cc screamer? Your hands are tied 2ith how small the chambers are and you'll always have that nagging question....will they seal and hold up. They're junk. Scrap aluminum.
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Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I ran some retired racing heads like that on a 2165 and the really rocked. Had to do every trick in the book to get the cr down to 9.5. Did worry that there was very little metal still holding them together but didn't have any problems.
However, I get the feeling what the guy would have had better luck choosing heads suited for his app by pulling heads out of a barrel blindfolded. |
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I won't be using these heads. Most of the responses on here pretty much confirmed my biggest worry. The compression ratio would just be too high for such a small motor that I have no intention of spinning much past 6k rpms. Now to start researching new performance heads! Anybody have any experience with these heads from ACN? I'm not trying to break the bank and these seem like a good bang for the buck. Just wondering how they might hold up.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Budget-Big-Valve-Dual...lve-92.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Budget-Big-Valve-Dual...lve-92.htm
I'm not sure if the 42x37mm valves would be a little too much for the motor. I have a set of 40 IDF's that I'll be running. Also, I'm leaning towards the Web Cam 110 Grind. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| What is your target HP, and what RPMs?? |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my observation.
Those heads used to be Semi-hemi cut, you can see the remnants of this in the pictures. Look near the plug, toward the chamber center. Also opposite the plug. It's more obvious in some of the chambers than the other.
They flycut the heads to remove almost all of that, to make them more sellable. I'll bet they are in the 35-40cc range, and virtually useless on anything other than using race fuel, E85, or straight alcohol.
Regarding the budget big valved heads, they are a good buy IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO YOUR OWN PORTING. If you want to just bolt them on and run it, you'd be better with stock heads or any of the L* line (L3, L5, etc).
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Last edited by [email protected] on Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't have a target HP, I think it would be 100-120 range given the displacement, heads, cam, carbs, and the the exhaust I'll be reusing ( 1-1/2" merged Tri-Mill Bobcat with no heater boxes.).
I'm looking at about a 6k redline since that's what the cam is rated at. Everything will be fully balanced so I could rev it higher if I used a different cam, but I don't see much need to get it higher than that. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Stock heads can support 90 hp
Ported stock heads can do 100-120
Assuming all else is ideal
I would recommend Tims super stock heads. 37mnm intake should flow enough for 120 hp with normal W series valve lifts(or web 110 lift).
I really like the web 110! but it's a fast ramp cam. Avoid using high ratio rockers with it if possible.
9-1 compression minimum! |
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Baja J
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis Mo area
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll be using 1.1 solid shaft rockers. Mainly because a good set is a lot less expensive than a good set of 1.4's and it should be easier to set up the rocker geometry. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Web does a great job. Stock rockers are unbreakable. Money well spent. |
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