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chaosisme
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject: Selling parts and distrust. |
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Have you ever been selling a part and had somebody offer to buy it but only offer to pay half, and then pay the other half once they received it?
Im kind of shocked that something like that just happened. And the guy acted like it was totally normal for me to mail off a part and trust that he'd send the remainder once he received it.
Granted, thats distrust on my part, but if you're using paypal, I cant even see why he had an issue at all. Maybe if he was paying with cash or a money order, but not with paypal.
I dont get it.
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't do it.
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chaosisme
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| I wouldn't do it. |
I didnt even consider it and I said so. And afterward the guy asked if I had something to hide because I "had his address" and if I felt I was being cheated then I could drive to where he lives and speak to him face to face. Yeah right. I said no thanks to the whole thing, I dont need that much hassle to sell something simple.
I can understand people being hesitant if they were buying a car sight unseen but this was just a part and it wasnt even expensive.
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Fiatdude
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: now in MO.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just ask him to try the same deal at AutoZone --
If it isn't the deal he wants, he can walk away
.
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
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Location: Phoenix Metro
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ditto to what Everett said- and now I am going to tell everyone I would be very hesitant to take PayPal- at all.
Recently, they went to a 180 day window to open a case on items.
Shortly after, in January, the USPS went to "up to 120 days" for online viewable tracking.
Over on eBay, we are starting to get sellers on the member- to- member help boards that are having buyers file "Item Not Received" cases four/ five months after the fact. Since the tracking/ delivery confirmation is no longer valid online- sellers are automatically losing these cases.
The kicker here is that PayPal will only accept online viewable proof of delivery. You can have an affadavit from the Post Office or from Jesus, but if it's not viewable online they will tell you "too bad, so sad".
To make it even better, eBay and PayPal are treating each other as separate companies beginning 1. July (even though the split isn't "official" till the 17th). So now, the trick PayPal is pulling for eBay purchases that still show a delivery date in "My eBay" is "So sorry, we're separate now and we can't see anything on the eBay side".
Incidentally, this is why we are seeing this rash of INR claims coming through PayPal on eBay purchases- and not through eBay.
Scammers learn very fast. It's just a trickle now, but every one of these cases is going against the sellers and they are getting royally freaking hosed. This is going to turn into a real nightmare really fast.
When the 180 day thing first came up, PayPal came onto one of eBay's weekly chats and told sellers not to worry- that PayPal would be keeping the delivery confirmation archived.
They bold- faced lied.
It would also behoove everybody to examine the new PayPal user agreement in full, especially the fun new stuff like where they basically say if they even suspect you might have violated the user agreement, you agree that they can just doink you for a minimum of $2500 to cover their (anticipated) expenses.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
10.3 Actions by PayPal - Restricted Activities. If PayPal, in its sole discretion, believes that you may have engaged in any Restricted Activities, we may take various actions to protect PayPal, other Users, other third parties, or you from Reversals, Chargebacks, Claims, fees, fines, penalties and any other liability. The actions we may take include but are not limited to the following:
(a. - g. Omitted)
h. If you violate the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 USD per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing Balance in the offending Account or any other Account you control.
Be very, very, VERY careful with PayPal, folks. It's turning into an easier scam than Western Union.
Just FYI.
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chaosisme
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Orange County, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Is there an alternative you've found that works better? Ive been thinking about trying Google Wallet.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| chaosisme wrote: |
| Is there an alternative you've found that works better? Ive been thinking about trying Google Wallet. |
There has been some enthusiasm for ProPay even on eBay, and on my sales venue sellers are talking up Stripe and Dwolla. I think Gary on here uses Dwolla as well.
People may not realize it, but postal money orders carry some protections as well.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Ditto to what Everett said- and now I am going to tell everyone I would be very hesitant to take PayPal- at all.
Recently, they went to a 180 day window to open a case on items.
Shortly after, in January, the USPS went to "up to 120 days" for online viewable tracking.
Over on eBay, we are starting to get sellers on the member- to- member help boards that are having buyers file "Item Not Received" cases four/ five months after the fact. Since the tracking/ delivery confirmation is no longer valid online- sellers are automatically losing these cases.
The kicker here is that PayPal will only accept online viewable proof of delivery. You can have an affadavit from the Post Office or from Jesus, but if it's not viewable online they will tell you "too bad, so sad".
To make it even better, eBay and PayPal are treating each other as separate companies beginning 1. July (even though the split isn't "official" till the 17th). So now, the trick PayPal is pulling for eBay purchases that still show a delivery date in "My eBay" is "So sorry, we're separate now and we can't see anything on the eBay side".
Incidentally, this is why we are seeing this rash of INR claims coming through PayPal on eBay purchases- and not through eBay.
Scammers learn very fast. It's just a trickle now, but every one of these cases is going against the sellers and they are getting royally freaking hosed. This is going to turn into a real nightmare really fast.
When the 180 day thing first came up, PayPal came onto one of eBay's weekly chats and told sellers not to worry- that PayPal would be keeping the delivery confirmation archived.
They bold- faced lied.
It would also behoove everybody to examine the new PayPal user agreement in full, especially the fun new stuff like where they basically say if they even suspect you might have violated the user agreement, you agree that they can just doink you for a minimum of $2500 to cover their (anticipated) expenses.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
10.3 Actions by PayPal - Restricted Activities. If PayPal, in its sole discretion, believes that you may have engaged in any Restricted Activities, we may take various actions to protect PayPal, other Users, other third parties, or you from Reversals, Chargebacks, Claims, fees, fines, penalties and any other liability. The actions we may take include but are not limited to the following:
(a. - g. Omitted)
h. If you violate the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 USD per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing Balance in the offending Account or any other Account you control.
Be very, very, VERY careful with PayPal, folks. It's turning into an easier scam than Western Union.
Just FYI. |
Holy F@$K.
I've been an ebay seller (and occasional buyer) since 1999- it's no secret that over the years ebay (while owning PayPal) has resorted to giving the buyer WAY more benefit of the doubt than they ever did sellers and continually upping fees for those sellers to eventually a ridiculous 10% final value fee along with shipping fees (trying to become Amazon 2.0)-- which ultimately culminated in sellers (particularly individual sellers such as myself who only post individual items occasionally) ceasing to sell items on ebay, investors watching ebay's profits drop while watching PayPal's increase (due to being an option on an infinite other number of sites) and finally threatening to pull their investment funds entirely unless ebay decided to allow PayPal to split off and become its own company.
I suppose some of these new policies have to do with the fact that ebay set the rules for INR's and "received in condition other than described" etc etc when they owned PayPal--now that PayPal users aren't subject to those terms anymore, Paypal has to watch out for itself, but yeah these new policies are freaking outrageous. (I was aware of the 180 day policy to file a claim but I wasn't aware of the $2500 deal- OMG.)
I've never heard of these alternate online pay methods you mentioned, but if this is "the new PayPal" then I hope they rot while these other pay sites take over the online merchant world. I'd like to think that both ebay and PayPal have their days numbered, but unfortunately they both probably have too strong a foothold in the online marketplace to ever be seriously threatened.
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
The Acceptable use Policy mentioned above is a link, here is that link:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full
On a quick read, most or all of them seem like reasonable restrictions to me.
Some of them seem open to interpretation. What defines "obscene" for example.
Don't violate those and you won't be on the hook for $2500. |
Also see here:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
These "upcoming" policies are now in effect, but they still haven't bothered to update the acceptable use policies page by combining the two.
And again, the $2500 is a minimum per "violation" assessment. They can and do freeze account balances for up to 180 days out of the blue on "suspicion"... that's always been an issue with PP, although they usually reserve that treatment for political or activist organizations with which they don't agree.
If you violate the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 USD per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages considering all currently existing circumstances
The problem, at least for me, is that PP itself gets to decide what's what... way too much interference for a money transfer service IMHO.
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EverettB
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