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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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 Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: Narrowed & Adjustable Beams - The Good the Bad the Ugly |
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The scene is exploding due to more teams/companies/clubs building quality stuff. The Narrowed Beam scene has skyrocketed. Everyone has to have one. Some know why, others just want one because they heard it was cool.
The Ultimate Narrowed & Adjustable Beam, including our PRObuilt Beams, are extremely popular. Now this thread is not about Airkewld and/or our beams necessarily, but more of the pros and cons that you, the end user, like and dislike about the beam you purchased, built or had a company supply.
Did you build it? What parts did you purchase? What kind of welder did you use?
Ball Joint or Link Pin?
If you didn't build it, who did?
What kind of bearings/bushings were used?
How narrow did you go? Why did you narrow it that amount?
What kind of shocks did you use? Or is it shockless?
Did you also use drop spindles? If so, which company did you use?
Are you using caster shims?
How do you like the ride quality? Do you like the steering? How about handling?
How are you maintaining it?
If you could change something, what would it be? More adjustment, Better finish? Less noise?
Now obviously, we can all tout different companies because we are friends or what not, but let's hear from the users, the cruisers, the wavers, the ones that get either all the enjoyment out of, or all the headaches out of.
The Airkewld team would like to thank all of you that take the time to answer these questions and give your feedback. You are the reason why we try to build the best, and what better way to do that then is to listen.
Peace!
_________________
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I narrowed my own. Aim was to lower it a little and gain room for 195 wide tires up front on my ghia. The beam is off a 1973 or 1974 standard beetle. It was a lot of work, but a good project. I narrowed it 2" and added commercially made adjusters. I replaced the bushings with new oem vw bushings, but had to carefully hone them to fit my control arms. I also used new and used needle roller bearings, keeping the original ones that were still good. I welded it with a Lincoln SP175T mig welder, which provided plenty of penetration. I re-used the original leaf torsion springs, cutting them down with a zip disk. Overall happy with the end result. It's not at all easy keeping it straight, honing the bushings and notching the shortened leafs precisely. It was also a fair bit of work to remove and relocate the mounting brackets. For the steering linkage I purchased an aftermarket set that was already shortened for 2" narrow front beams.
_________________
1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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63vbug82
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015
Posts: 146
Location: Cedartown Ga
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
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ExtremeBean
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 192
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm running cb performance dropped spindles on my 59. I haven't narrowed my beam yet but those plans are in the works when time/money allows. I'm going to have someone in the scene that has done it before help me narrow this extra German beam I have. The reason I'm doing it myself rather than buying one is strictly cost savings. I love the stuff you guys make and I understand quality cost money, but it's just simply not in my budget. This is just a fun little project car for me and something to work on in my spare time. If I was building an all out $20,000 show car, by all means I would buy your stuff. I'm running 5 spoke empi's so I haven't decided if I'm going 4" or 6" yet. I'd like to run shocks but I'm not sure if the ride, safety, extra cost is worth it. Care to chime in on that? Oh yeah, the reason I'm doing it is because I like the stance and the dropped spindles just arnt low enough.
Have you guys ever thought about offering a "budget" line? Something not as fancy, but still good quality, American made products for the non show cars and more budget conscious consumer? |
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Todd66
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2012
Posts: 461
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I narrowed my stock 66 ball joint beam 3" by myself with a Lincoln 240v welder. I used Airkewlds adjusters, which were much easier to install than the ones I used for my sons, thanks to the internal sleeve. They also have more adjustment, but I didn't really need it. I am running NAPA's stock length shocks with dropped spindles and disc brakes from CB. Running 1 set of caster shims, thinking of running a 2nd set. I have a 3/4" sway bar which makes it handle quite well, but it drags everywhere. That is my next project. As a side note: It would be great if someone like Airkewld would develop a front sway bar like whiteline use to have, which relocates it up and off the ground, and for narrowed beams (hint hint). I narrowed it for the 205/40/17 tires, dropped spindles and disc brakes so they will fit inside the fenders. The ride is surprisingly good especially considering the 40 series tires. I drive every day on freeway at 80mph comfortably (until a good crosswind). The only thing I would do differently is only going 2". It looks good, but I want it as wide as possible for handling. |
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I bought my 4" narrowed beam from a Samba Member who makes beams from new material.
No shocks and urethane bushings. Beam is well built in my opinion and the price was right.
I am running AC Industries front disks (Chevy pattern) with 15x5 (3.5" Backspace) Weld Racing Prostar rims. I went with 4" due to the disks pushing the wheel base out 7/8" each side and the wider rims with 185/60 tires.
I have zero complaints about ride quality, but the steering can be a pain. I do not drive my car daily due to work, and when you go from a full sized truck to a 54 Bug, the handling is a big difference. Let's face it, a stock suspension Bug drives no where near as smooth as a modern vehicle. It's just part of the experience.
I do plan to buy to an Airkewld Beam when possible...just not at the top off the list yet |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Northof49 wrote: |
| I narrowed my own. Aim was to lower it a little and gain room for 195 wide tires up front on my ghia. The beam is off a 1973 or 1974 standard beetle. It was a lot of work, but a good project. I narrowed it 2" and added commercially made adjusters. I replaced the bushings with new oem vw bushings, but had to carefully hone them to fit my control arms. I also used new and used needle roller bearings, keeping the original ones that were still good. I welded it with a Lincoln SP175T mig welder, which provided plenty of penetration. I re-used the original leaf torsion springs, cutting them down with a zip disk. Overall happy with the end result. It's not at all easy keeping it straight, honing the bushings and notching the shortened leafs precisely. It was also a fair bit of work to remove and relocate the mounting brackets. For the steering linkage I purchased an aftermarket set that was already shortened for 2" narrow front beams. |
Thanks for posting, how is the wear on the tires? Good? I love the methodical approach, nice job. What kind of shocks are you running? Did you use German tie Rod ends and Steering Dampener?
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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iowegian 
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Narrowed & Adjustable Beams - The Good the Bad the U |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
The scene is exploding due to more teams/companies/clubs building quality stuff. The Narrowed Beam scene has skyrocketed. Everyone has to have one. Some know why, others just want one because they heard it was cool.
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Are cool narrowed beams really a "scene"?
Aren't they more of a "life-style"?  |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4351
Location: Cité Soleil
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63vbug82
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015
Posts: 146
Location: Cedartown Ga
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
Is that with alignment too? |
The alignment stays close but dose get thrown off some but nothing really bad but when i raise it fixs the alignment so its ok with me on that part because i can use a tow bar if i have to and not rip the front apron and fenders off |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
Is that with alignment too? |
The alignment stays close but dose get thrown off some but nothing really bad but when i raise it fixs the alignment so its ok with me on that part because i can use a tow bar if i have to and not rip the front apron and fenders off |
Interesting. I have seen it change drastically from stock to slammed. How many inches are you talking about?
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ExtremeBean wrote: |
I'm running cb performance dropped spindles on my 59. I haven't narrowed my beam yet but those plans are in the works when time/money allows. I'm going to have someone in the scene that has done it before help me narrow this extra German beam I have. The reason I'm doing it myself rather than buying one is strictly cost savings. I love the stuff you guys make and I understand quality cost money, but it's just simply not in my budget. This is just a fun little project car for me and something to work on in my spare time. If I was building an all out $20,000 show car, by all means I would buy your stuff. I'm running 5 spoke empi's so I haven't decided if I'm going 4" or 6" yet. I'd like to run shocks but I'm not sure if the ride, safety, extra cost is worth it. Care to chime in on that? Oh yeah, the reason I'm doing it is because I like the stance and the dropped spindles just arnt low enough.
Have you guys ever thought about offering a "budget" line? Something not as fancy, but still good quality, American made products for the non show cars and more budget conscious consumer? |
If you plan on running the vehicle with the tires at the fender edge, the 4" is a win win for you. Shocks and you are still able to have some handling.
If you plan on tuckin the wheels hard, 6" shockless and build the car a cruiser. You will love it. Keeping the drop spindles is a plus as well. Putting them together, if the adjusters are installed correctly, is a great marriage.
I don't want to make this thread about Airkewld, so I will just say that a budget line of parts is not something we are looking at. We believe the materials we use are the only materials that should be used. There are plenty of guys on the samba who can build something reliable and less expensive. You just need to read the reviews on everything to see if it meets your requirements.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Todd66 wrote: |
| I narrowed my stock 66 ball joint beam 3" by myself with a Lincoln 240v welder. I used Airkewlds adjusters, which were much easier to install than the ones I used for my sons, thanks to the internal sleeve. They also have more adjustment, but I didn't really need it. I am running NAPA's stock length shocks with dropped spindles and disc brakes from CB. Running 1 set of caster shims, thinking of running a 2nd set. I have a 3/4" sway bar which makes it handle quite well, but it drags everywhere. That is my next project. As a side note: It would be great if someone like Airkewld would develop a front sway bar like whiteline use to have, which relocates it up and off the ground, and for narrowed beams (hint hint). I narrowed it for the 205/40/17 tires, dropped spindles and disc brakes so they will fit inside the fenders. The ride is surprisingly good especially considering the 40 series tires. I drive every day on freeway at 80mph comfortably (until a good crosswind). The only thing I would do differently is only going 2". It looks good, but I want it as wide as possible for handling. |
Great to hear you like the GameChangers! Glad to see you had good use of them. How low are you off the ground? Are your control arms angled upwards?
As far as the handling is concerned, ever think about some adjustable shocks? Our clients are loving the tune-ability.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| txoval wrote: |
I bought my 4" narrowed beam from a Samba Member who makes beams from new material.
No shocks and urethane bushings. Beam is well built in my opinion and the price was right.
I am running AC Industries front disks (Chevy pattern) with 15x5 (3.5" Backspace) Weld Racing Prostar rims. I went with 4" due to the disks pushing the wheel base out 7/8" each side and the wider rims with 185/60 tires.
I have zero complaints about ride quality, but the steering can be a pain. I do not drive my car daily due to work, and when you go from a full sized truck to a 54 Bug, the handling is a big difference. Let's face it, a stock suspension Bug drives no where near as smooth as a modern vehicle. It's just part of the experience.
I do plan to buy to an Airkewld Beam when possible...just not at the top off the list yet |
What about the steering is a pain?
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
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63vbug82
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015
Posts: 146
Location: Cedartown Ga
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
Is that with alignment too? |
The alignment stays close but dose get thrown off some but nothing really bad but when i raise it fixs the alignment so its ok with me on that part because i can use a tow bar if i have to and not rip the front apron and fenders off |
4 inch. No drop spendles
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63vbug82
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015
Posts: 146
Location: Cedartown Ga
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
Is that with alignment too? |
The alignment stays close but dose get thrown off some but nothing really bad but when i raise it fixs the alignment so its ok with me on that part because i can use a tow bar if i have to and not rip the front apron and fenders off |
4 inch. No drop spendles
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63vbug82
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015
Posts: 146
Location: Cedartown Ga
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| 63vbug82 wrote: |
| I like my adjustable beam i can go from stock hight to slammed in 5 mins any time i want to |
Is that with alignment too? |
The alignment stays close but dose get thrown off some but nothing really bad but when i raise it fixs the alignment so its ok with me on that part because i can use a tow bar if i have to and not rip the front apron and fenders off |
4 inch. No drop spendles
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Running wider rubber |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| Northof49 wrote: |
| I narrowed my own. Aim was to lower it a little and gain room for 195 wide tires up front on my ghia. The beam is off a 1973 or 1974 standard beetle. It was a lot of work, but a good project. I narrowed it 2" and added commercially made adjusters. I replaced the bushings with new oem vw bushings, but had to carefully hone them to fit my control arms. I also used new and used needle roller bearings, keeping the original ones that were still good. I welded it with a Lincoln SP175T mig welder, which provided plenty of penetration. I re-used the original leaf torsion springs, cutting them down with a zip disk. Overall happy with the end result. It's not at all easy keeping it straight, honing the bushings and notching the shortened leafs precisely. It was also a fair bit of work to remove and relocate the mounting brackets. For the steering linkage I purchased an aftermarket set that was already shortened for 2" narrow front beams. |
Thanks for posting, how is the wear on the tires? Good? I love the methodical approach, nice job. What kind of shocks are you running? Did you use German tie Rod ends and Steering Dampener? |
The ghia isn't "slammed", so proper alignment was maintained. I only completed it last summer, so I can't comment yet on long term tire wear. I am running empi short shocks. I tried standard length shocks, and they were too long. The front end of my ghia is lightened, with a fibreglass front end and bumperettes. The suspension seems stiff, and handling is quite flat, despite not having added a front sway bar back on. I am running what are most likely chinese made tie rod ends and empi (likely again chinese) steering dampener. So far, so good, but I wouldn't expect them to wear like original german. At this point in time, steering is very tight and precise. I do however notice that when I back down from our very steep driveway approach at an angle, the front end makes a creaking noise, that isn't heard on the road during bumps. Cause???? (edit: I think it's actually the back end making the creaking. Likely the urethane bushings on the end of the torsion bars, as I hear the creaking when I manually bounce a rear corner). The car has good manners on the road an highway. Steers nicely, tracks the road precisely. I do get some squealing of tires on sharp turns though. Possible ackerman problem?? The tires are overall quite prone to squealing, especially noticeable during hard straight line braking. The tire brand is Continental. That's pretty much full disclosure of the good, the bad and the ugly.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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MMW
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2012
Posts: 846
Location: northern NJ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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When I got my car it had CB performance drop spindles on a JT aluminum beam stock width. I wanted it lower & researched adjusters for the beam. I then realized that aluminum beams aren't really the best for a street driven bug so I picked up a stock beam from a club member, bought Empi adjusters & put them in.
I indexed them so I could go 1" higher than stock & 3" lower as they claim 4" adjustability. In all reality I don't think you get a full 4", maybe 3 to 3.5"? No issues installing them but probably not something a novice wants to attempt. I kept it stock width as I don't run fenders.
I added one caster shim & had to add an extension to both brake line brackets as the hoses were very tight at full lock. I never noticed it until it was back on the ground & I was turning the steering to get to the grease fittings. Glad I saw it, would of sucked breaking a hose while parking somewhere. - Check your brake hoses under compression & at full lock both ways! -
I haven't installed the sway bar yet but I've heard you can just mount it on top of the arms instead of under for more clearance. Hope that is correct as I have all the parts to do it.
Did a very quick self alignment but needs to be tweaked as it is a slight bit twitchy on the interstate but nothing dangerous. As soon as I get the time I'll re-align it taking my time.
Answers to questions
Tig welded with a Miller Syncrowave 250
Link pin, stock bearings and bushings, I built it, stock width, stock shocks from Wolfsburg West, CB drop spindles, one caster shim, not sure about the ride quality etc. as I just got it on the road, just regular grease intervals, No changes, I'm happy with it.
_________________
Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle |
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