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Air Conditioner System Upgrades: Hoses, condenser, etc.
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agon.parts
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farf wrote:
Dave,
Just rolled in from Corwyn's Baja adventure last night. I had seen your request for wiring info earlier but did not have access to the computer the info was on. I have an 86 with the early a/c, no pressure switches. This one shows a pressure switch but is different from the Bentley diagram. Its a bit blurry but a hard copy and a good pair of glasses helps.

Good luck, Mike

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I was looking for a diagram of the wiring circuit for the A/C switch as well. I took some to time to clean up both of the images that were previously posted as best as I could. I hope they help!

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agon.parts
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@cellerdoor in the hand drawing of the circuit, what do the letters on the evaporator blower speed switch stand for? I am assuming: H=High, M=Medium, L=Low. What about the B and C?
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally ordered my AC hose and Fittings Friday.
I have used hosewarehouse in the past for work related items so I Placed my order with them, a known quality supplier to me.

I Ordered the EZ Clip system and the related barrier hose, I intended to order the recommended GH134 hose by Eaton.

Instead I ended up ordering the newer GH001 hose by Eaton.
This hose is designed to meet the requirements of the new R1234yf refrigerant poised to replace R134a.

This new hose is apparently the cats meow of AC hose, the sales guy called me up to tell me what an excellent choice I Made ordering this instead of the GH134! "A higher quality hose and it cost LESS!!!!"
He was so excited he went on and on about the virtures of this hose and how his customers tell him that they actually have COLDER AC using the GH001 hose!
I don't get that..... Better flow of refrigerant?

Anyway.....
The "old" GH134 hose......

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VS the new GH001 hose......

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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While looking at hose for my replacement project I came across that GH001 hose and saw that it seemed to be better rated and cheaper than GH134 and wondered what the catch was.
Glad to hear that the sales rep thought it a good choice.
I'm sure you've probably posted it somewhere already, but what refrigerant are you planning to use?

I'm going the same route as you Dave, all new hose and EZ-Clip fittings. Haven't decided about the condenser yet, mine is in good nic, but trying to clean the internals has been difficult.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Condenser, while not leaking is externally decomposing from deicer acids eating the Aluminum fins.

For the money required, a new crossflow Condenser is money well invested.

I am NOT an expert by any means, but what I read and talk to techs about AC.....
I have learned this.......
A large good flowing Condenser will do you no harm and will actually increase your cooling performance.
You want to dump that heat from your Evaporator efficiently and quickly!

The new cross flow R134a Condensers do this beautifully.

Yet interestingly, a too large compressor will impair your AC's performance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Finally ordered my AC hose and Fittings Friday... I ended up ordering the newer
GH001 hose by Eaton... "A higher quality hose and it cost LESS!!!!"

Sure - now you tell me! Payback for the blower resistor project, perhaps...??? Wink

- Dave

J/K - Keep it up...you're gonna love it! Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
djkeev wrote:
Finally ordered my AC hose and Fittings Friday... I ended up ordering the newer
GH001 hose by Eaton... "A higher quality hose and it cost LESS!!!!"

Sure - now you tell me! Payback for the blower resistor project, perhaps...??? Wink

- Dave

J/K - Keep it up...you're gonna love it! Cool


Ha!


Anyway....... UPS showed up today with a surprisingly small and light weight box from Hose Warehouse.

In it are all of my hoses, fittings, crimp tool and clips.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They did make a mistake on my size 10 Suction fitting with gauge connector to the compressor but that is easily fixed.

I am mostly shocked not only by the light weight but by small size of the new AC hoses!

Here is a photo comparing the old R12 hoses size 08 and 10 to the new Eaton GH001 hoses.
Better hose yet such a much smaller diameter!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New on top of the old.......

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Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed the old VW Condensor today.

Not at all hard, radiator is already out so it was just disconnecting the hose mounts to the frame, the hose connections to the Condensor and the four screws holding the Condensor at the top.

Here is a shot of One of the upper condensor mounting brackets.......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I decided to simply reuse the upper brackets.
To accomodate my new Vintage Air condensor they had to be moved 2" apart.

I also needed to add some spacers for the new condensor to the bracket. The new condensor mounting bracket is centered on the unit depth while the VW condensor was flush to the forward surface.
I just used some extra nuts.

I used 8mm stainless hardware so I had to enlarge some holes, it was what I had, if I had 6mm I would have used them.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A closeup of my mounting system.......
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I removed the Rec/Drier and the hoses from the front to it.
This unit is mounted on rubber isolators like the fuel pump, three of the four were broken so replacements need to be sourced.
I see that Bell Metric has them for about $5 each.

The connections to the old Rec/Drier were TIGHT!!!! Rusted on good!

I Removed the Condensor AC fitting shipping caps and darn near had a heart attack!
Those suckers are shipped PRESSURIZED!!!!!!
No one mentioned that piece of info!....... Shocked

Dave.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am beginning to really like this EZ Clip system.
It seems to be Very user friendly.
I really like NOT depending upon a shop to cut and crimp the fittings, I can take my time and fit things how I want.

Just keep the open hoses plugged or taped to keep out dirt.

I will be using the old Rec/Drier as a "place holder" during layout because I won't uncap the new unit until I am ready to charge the system. You do NOT want to expose it to moisture, same with the compressor.

I will also add Bentley's Listed oil quantities to each unit as it is assembled.
PAQ oil sadly is hydroscopic but......

Dave
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Farf
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your new compressor and R/D will be pressurized with dry nitrogen too. It's a good thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the dry nitrogen is designed to displace ambient air so that the desiccant is not ruined with ambient humidity.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:
Yeah, the dry nitrogen is designed to displace ambient air so that the desiccant is not ruined with ambient humidity.


I expected it in the Rec/drier, I was Surprised by it in the Condenser!

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't want to start another "oil war", the last one was ugly. Just some info for you to digest regarding the the addition of oil to system components.

Nostalgic Air without mincing words says you don't need to....See link below.

http://nostalgicac.com/compressors.html


The Sanden service guide, if you read their sample oil addition scenarios gets around to saying you should add oil to components if the total oil charge exceeds 10 ozs.

https://sanden.com/productlibrary/manuals/sd_service_guide_rev_2.pdf

I think the risk of moisture contamination is greatly reduced by following what the distributor and manufacturer recommend.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farf wrote:
Don't want to start another "oil war", the last one was ugly. Just some info for you to digest regarding the the addition of oil to system components.

Nostalgic Air without mincing words says you don't need to....See link below.

http://nostalgicac.com/compressors.html


The Sanden service guide, if you read their sample oil addition scenarios gets around to saying you should add oil to components if the total oil charge exceeds 10 ozs.

https://sanden.com/productlibrary/manuals/sd_service_guide_rev_2.pdf

I think the risk of moisture contamination is greatly reduced by following what the distributor and manufacturer recommend.


Thanks for that link!

I did not realize that there was an AC system "oil war".......
I did stumble upon this link.......
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559261&start=0


This started me on a journey of research which has led me to some interesting articles.
The Bentley only covers the 1986 (late) and newer AC systems.
For 1986 a total of 7.18 oz of lubricating oil is required for a charge capacity of 50.75 oz of R12.
Bentley has a table of how much oil to install in each AC component during assembly.

Haynes AC manual states that 1986 and newer units require 3.17 lbs (50.72oz) of R12.
The 1980 - 1985 Vanagons require 2.62 lbs (41.92oz) of R12

Haynes also states that the 1987 Vanagon takes 6.0 oz of lubricating oil.
1988 - 1990 5.00 oz (with a footnote annotation * .... But alas.... No footnote!) and 1991 7.0 oz.

I'm not a fan of Haynes anyway so that missing footnote doesn't surprise me. Then again, Bentley ignores most information about our AC units beginning in 1980!

Now, if one goes to the Sanden Compressor Service Guide and scrolls down to about page 11 an explanation and a formula for oil capacity is presented.
http://www.sanden.com/productlibrary/manuals/sd_service_guide_rev_2.pdf

What I find interesting (I haven't done the math yet) is that they suggest putting the entire systems oil capacity into the compressor.

My new compressor does NOT state oil quantity as shipped...... The best I can glean from searching is 5.5 oz..........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I LIKE this!! ^^^^
Adding all of the oil into the compressor as the final step before charging solves the moisture contamination problem as I assemble components over a multi week time span.

Screen shots from the above link......

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Dave[/i]
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then you have VW's bulletin on "upgrading" from R12 to R134a......
This only muddies the AC oil quantity waters......
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "oil war" was not worldwide, more like alpha dog posturing. I did read the link you provided, lots of good info, discussion etc..

Unfotunately, there doesn't seem to be a difinitive answer regarding oil amounts required for the various model years. In your case, with your new condenser you probably would be safe with 8 ozs. total oil charge as your default amount. It would be interesting to know your calculated amount after you do the math for your system.

I agree that the VW technical paper should be shredded, it really doesn't make much sense.

In lieu of nitrogen, as you build up your system use RedTek to purge air/moisture from the lines and tape or cap off the lines at the end of the day.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This EZ Clip fitting system is amazing!
It makes AC work border on being FUN!
Cut, lube fitting with PAG oil, insert, put on retaining, slide clamps to,correct spot, align tool,and squeeze until it clicks. You don,t even need to squeeze hard, not like a PEX plumbing system connection!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also love the smaller AC hose diameter, easy to feed, flexible and I can clamp them both in one 1" clamp! Although I'm using a 3/4" for the size 8 and a 1/2" for the 6 as I Run them and space allows.

Condenser installed...... I Used 1/2" wire clamps to the round support rods for the lower mount.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My old Radiator air deflectors were shredded cardboard so I installed GoWesty's new plastic reproductions.

There weren't any install issues but the upper mount point cannot be used with my Vintage Air Condenser. Relocating My mounting brackets covered the two mounting push pin holes!
See the Black Plastic button next to the Rusty Condenser mount bracket?
That is the upper deflector mounting point. I pushed each bracket over 1" so the hole is now covered. It all ended up working, no worries!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New upper ears of deflector, notice how the condenser mount bracket completely covers the upper mounting point now......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anyway, the side mount screws still fit just fine......
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I did need to trim the Left Side deflector some to accommodate the Lower AC fitting.

The upper ears of the deflectors ended up simply getting sandwiched between the Condenser and the Radiator.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EZ Clip system is so stupid simple that I LOVE IT!!!!!

Here is a quick pictorial of the process......

Fitting with the cage showing where the clamps fall....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Slip clamps onto the hose BEFORE INSERTING THE FITTING INTO THE HOSE.....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Lube the fitting With PAG oil and insert into hose.....
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Install cage onto fitting. It is a snap fit, pliers are useful......
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Clamps slid over cage indentations.......
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Squeeze clamps with special pluers until the clamps "Click".
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Completed fitting!
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Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it turns out the AC hoses and the Receiver/Drier are mounted to the body utilizing rubber vibration isolators.
These are Rubber with a 6mm 1.0 stud on each end.

Many of these were broken or broke during hose removal.

BelMetric carries them, same basic size except larger in diameter which presents no problems.

Part #RPB0218P

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