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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| hsosa1 wrote: |
| Im going thru this right now . I have a early 60Dc where u install the cable underneath. and i have a 67 tranny with gear boxes and 67 brakes I brought the 60 cables from wolfsburgh. I noticed that the old emergency brake cables has an extender on one of the brake cables and the other seems to have one too. Im replacing them so Do I need to buy the later cables ? and then use the extenders? |
I jus trealized I never finished my part on here after going through all of this. Thanks for the reminder.
I ended up using (with great results) a cable extender kit made for dune buggies. I used later (64-67) cables and cut off the excess, then clamped on the extenders and used Loctite on the set screw threads. I have @1200 miles on this setup, and some intentional panic braking using the e-brake with no issues at all. If I had a local source to have new front ends swedged on I would do that instead, but this is working fine.
I tried every way possible to make Campy's modification work for me, and I failed. I may take a stab at this again in the future, but for now I am happy with my result.
Campy, email me whatever pics you may have. I can re-size them and post them up for all to see. BTW, I had everything adjusted properly when trying to get my setup working. I had that system R&R'ed so many times it's all a blur now. 
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| That sure looks like the bulletproof way of doing it with intelligent engineering. |
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apexxn
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2002
Posts: 39
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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After doing some research here on what the trials and tribulation are of installing a late transaxle in to an early chassis I came across this thread.
Great info here and it made it much easier to figure out a possible solution.
As prior posts have stated the position of the later e-brake hole is further to the outside and lower than the early hole. I cut out the early mounting hole and bracket and transferred it to the later backing plate using the top two backing plate mounting holes as guides.
It's not completely finished yet as I just shot it quick and dirty with some rattle can primer. I'll blast it and then hit it with some epoxy and high build sand it down and make it look like it's never been messed with before I lay down the final paint.
Now do I know if this actually works....... uh no. My tranny is a few months out from being installed so I'll have to get back to you on that.
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PedalWerks
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 219
Location: San Bernardino SoCalif
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| camerod wrote: |
if your bus has cable adjustment below the floor, SIMPLY use your original '55-mid '60 cables and extend them with 6mm all thread coupler nuts and two 3" pieces of all thread or 3" long 6mm bolts. tighten the allthread/bolts against the end of the ebrake cables using the coupler nuts, then use 6mm regular nuts to adjust the cables as stock...this works flawlessly!
if your bus is a late '60-63 just use the 64-64 cables as hazetguy suggested
BTW, if you have trouble finding the 6mm coupler nuts I can send them to you for $2.00 ea. |
awesome works great 60mm length worked for me.
Thanks
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Nothing Exceeds Like Excess!!!
www.pedalwerks.com
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12' Golf 2.5
07' Rabbit 2.5
59' Single Cab
57' Oval hard top
55' Oval hardtop |
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Campy
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005
Posts: 4933
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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If someone wants to post them for me, I have photographs of a later model rear brake plate that I adapted for use in my 1963 camper. I did it some decades ago for my 1957 bus and years ago for my 1958 camper. It involved removing the pedestal guide from the later plate (grinding down the four spot welds) to expose the hole and making the hole in the later plate like the one in the earlier plate. A lip was bent in the new hole and a hole drilled in order to mount the cable stop from the old plate to the new one. It was a lot easier than cutting out a section from the old brake plate and welding it into the later brake plate. You have to have the two emergency brake cables adjusted out as far as possible until the brake shoes wear down because the new brake plate is bigger.
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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I have a different twist to this problem. I'm in the process of replacing cut-down late-style cables that I fitted to my '56 single cab which has a big nut transmission. I did that 'fix' a few years ago to get the truck on the road, but I had to cut the cable ends in situ and ended up with unequal length cables and uneven handbrake pressure. I'm re-doing a leaking bearing seal, so I've decided to fit new early cables and use Camerod's idea to extend them at the cab end with connecting nuts and all-thread.
The strange issue I have is the bowden tubes and springs on the 'early style' cables that I sourced are different to the one original which I never threw away, and different to the late-style that I've just removed.
Top is the original early-style. Middle is the new 'early style'. Bottom is the bowden tube and spring from the late style...
The cables in the original and new early-style are the same but the bowden tube ends and springs are different. The 'snout' is missing from the bowden tube on the new one and it has a longer spring to make up the difference. This means that it fits well in the big-nut backing plate, but the spring is too short (compare it to the late style spring in the above).
My intended solution is to get another short spring to make up the length difference and extend the new 'early style' spring to the same length as the later style spring, which fits my big nut backing plates.
Does that seem sensible or am I setting myself up to fail? Is there another solution? I've already tried winding the late-style spring on to the new early-style cable in place of the supplied spring, but the late-style spring's coil is too tight
I'm nipping out now to the local auto parts store to see if they have any springs that will fit.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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Just get late parking brake cables and have a "Wire Rope" shop install new front swedge ends after you shorten the later cables to match the earlier cable length.
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Just get late parking brake cables and have a "Wire Rope" shop install new front swedge ends after you shorten the later cables to match the earlier cable length. |
That's pretty much what I've just taken out. I couldn't find any guidance on how long the cables should be for early handbrake with late transmission though, so had to I cut them insitu. I fitted 'swageless compression wire rope stud thread terminals', but ended up with unequal lengths so the balance bar was cocked and I only had full hand brake on one wheel.
I figure that extending the now-too-short early cables is easier and more accurate.
Couldn't find springs local to me today that would fit and I won't be around to work on it tomorrow, so I've ordered some 200mm springs to cut down. They need to be about 165mm to fit the late backplates.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
That's pretty much what I've just taken out. I couldn't find any guidance on how long the cables should be for early handbrake with late transmission though, so had to I cut them insitu. |
You would cut the later cables so as to come out to the same length as the early cables.
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
That's pretty much what I've just taken out. I couldn't find any guidance on how long the cables should be for early handbrake with late transmission though, so had to I cut them insitu. |
You would cut the later cables so as to come out to the same length as the early cables. |
Wouldn't they then be too short? That's the problem with the early cables.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
Wouldn't they then be too short? That's the problem with the early cables. |
They should not come out too short. Rear axle is same distance back and the parking brake lever inside the drums is not farther back. Are the boden tube sections same length from front to the place they seat against the backing plate?
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
Wouldn't they then be too short? That's the problem with the early cables. |
They should not come out too short. Rear axle is same distance back and the parking brake lever inside the drums is not farther back. Are the boden tube sections same length from front to the place they seat against the backing plate? |
The later cables are longer to reach the later style handbrake adjuster which is up inside the cab on the handbrake handle.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
The later cables are longer to reach the later style handbrake adjuster which is up inside the cab on the handbrake handle. |
Exactly, so if shortened to same as the early cables they should work fine. As long as the early and late brake cable boden tubes are the same length.
Have 1960 walk thru panel camper that has the 1964-67 RGBs/brakes. Did shorten the cables going from the parts manual, but made mistake of using earlier length that is even shorter. Worked out in the end by adding studs and long nuts to them, to make up the difference. Still both were both nice and even then, now one has stretched more than the other, but both still work
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
Wouldn't they then be too short? That's the problem with the early cables. |
They should not come out too short. Rear axle is same distance back and the parking brake lever inside the drums is not farther back. Are the boden tube sections same length from front to the place they seat against the backing plate? |
I think you're wrong here. I'm in the middle of one of these right now with 6 Volt.
The early cables do not fit the big nut backing plates correctly and do not have the proper length return springs inside the drum. The location/arrangement of the park lever on the rear shoe and backing plate is different changing the location of everything in the drum. This causes the cable casing (you're calling this the Bowden tube?) to be too long and looping too high above the spring plate. The early cables have a long protrusion on the cable casing (see above pics) where it goes through the backing plate, and the BN cables don't have this. This protrusion is also the wrong diameter (too small) to fit properly in the big nut backing plate. We ended up cutting/shortening the cable casing to make it look right and putting a longer return spring on the cable inside the drum and it still didn't turn out right. My gut instinct is to start with big nut cables (that fit the drum/shoe/backing plate/rear of bus) and modify the front (cut to length). We did this originally and all would have been perfect except the job shop who installed the swaged ends didn't do a good job and it blew the ends off the first time we applied the parking brake.
I should have taken pictures that day to show all of the various issues but we were hurried.
In short, if you put early cables on a big nut trans, the whole drum area doesn't fit right:
-The early "Bowden tubes" are longer, causing them to loop upward funny above the spring plate from too much slack.
-The distance between the Bowden Tube and the end of the cable is different, which means a shorter return spring.
-The end of the Bowden Tube where it enters the backing plate is not only smaller but shaped differently. It kind of wobbles around in a BN backing plate.
If you look closely at WhoMe's pictures you can see most of this.
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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Yes, referring to the tube with the steel wound inside it like a clutch boden tube as a kind of boden tube. Because it does much the same as a clutch boden tube being it is designed to not collapse lengthwise, but instead of clutch it is for the parking brake cable.
Yes, understand the early cables do not fit in the 1964-67 brake system, but that is why we are suggesting not using the early cables. Instead suggesting to just shorten the 1964-67 cables to early cable lengths.
The only question to double check to make sure, is the early and late parking brake boden tubes the same length from body to mounting point in the brake drum? Not asking about how far inside the early parking brake tube sticks into the drum area. The body to brake backing plate is the only dimension that could be a change that would make the over all length length of the later cables to fit incorrectly to the front parking brake lever once installed.
Here is the definition of "Boden Cable" from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
The only question to double check to make sure, is the early and late parking brake boden tubes the same length from body to mounting point in the brake drum? Not asking about how far inside the early parking brake tube sticks into the drum area. The body to brake backing plate is the only dimension that could be a change that would make the over all length length of the later cables to fit incorrectly to the front parking brake lever once installed.
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The effective length of early vs. late cable is not/cannot be the same because when we installed the early brake cable on his BN axle the Bowden Tube arched up very high above the spring plate compared to what's normal for a '67 cable on a big nut trans. I measured this and I think it was about 2" or so longer on the early tube IIRC.
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
The effective length of early vs. late cable is not/cannot be the same because when we installed the early brake cable on his BN axle the Bowden Tube arched up very high above the spring plate compared to what's normal for a '67 cable on a big nut trans. I measured this and I think it was about 2" or so longer on the early tube IIRC. |
Exactly, that was the question concerning the bowden tube length.
Then that "about 2 inch" (about 50mm) would need to be minused off the correct early cable length. Then the 1964-67 cable would need to be cut that much shorter than the stock early cable.
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60 |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
The effective length of early vs. late cable is not/cannot be the same because when we installed the early brake cable on his BN axle the Bowden Tube arched up very high above the spring plate compared to what's normal for a '67 cable on a big nut trans. I measured this and I think it was about 2" or so longer on the early tube IIRC. |
Exactly, that was the question concerning the bowden tube length.
Then that "about 2 inch" (about 50mm) would need to be minused off the correct early cable length. Then the 1964-67 cable would need to be cut that much shorter than the stock early cable. |
More than that, the real issue is where the adjusters are. Late busses are above the floor, early busses are below the floor. That alone accounts for several inches.
_________________
'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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