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one4house
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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 Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: Engine Rebuild Pending, A Few Questions |
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Took a 1000 mile trip this past weekend in my Square. Trip went off without a hitch. During the week after I noticed a crank case noise that seemed to get louder and louder.
Knowing that this can never be a good thing, I decided to trailer the car to my parents shop, and my step dad and I tore the engine apart today.
Here is a link to my gallery so that you can see the images.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=one4house
Here is a short youtube video of the main issues:
https://youtu.be/WXd46V02LLU
The 3 and 4 cylinders were letting oil by, had some scaring and you could see where water had settled in the cylinders. The good news is that we found this early, if the case checks out, it shouldn't be too bad to fix. The heads look fine. I believe we can get a new set of pistons and cylinders, a new main bearing set, clean everything up and put it back together.
One thing I noticed were no shims between the case and cylinders or where the heads and cylinders meet. Is this OK? Do the mating surfaces require shims or can you have it without?
I believe I am going to go with a an 87mm set of PandC's. I really didn't want to do a THING with this engine. It ran so freaking good. Great mileage. Did not run hot at all. But if I'm going with a new set I might as well get a little displacement out of it.
Let me know if the pictures or videos show you something I may have missed.
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My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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rosevillain
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Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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No shims can be just fine. It means that the deck height was correct, or where the builder wanted it, or it was never checked.
I would have your case checked by an air cooled vw machine shop. Looks like it may need some work in the bearing saddle areas.
Measure everything for yourself, after you get it back from the machine shop. Have everything balanced by a shop that does that work.
I would avoid the 87mm pistons and cylinders. They are thinner than stock, and can run hot, which can cause them to warp. They may not be worth the extra displacement (3.4 cubic inches, or 56 cubic centemeters.)
Good luck |
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one4house
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| rosevillain wrote: |
No shims can be just fine. It means that the deck height was correct, or where the builder wanted it, or it was never checked.
I would have your case checked by an air cooled vw machine shop. Looks like it may need some work in the bearing saddle areas.
Measure everything for yourself, after you get it back from the machine shop. Have everything balanced by a shop that does that work.
I would avoid the 87mm pistons and cylinders. They are thinner than stock, and can run hot, which can cause them to warp. They may not be worth the extra displacement (3.4 cubic inches, or 56 cubic centemeters.)
Good luck |
Thanks for the pointers. The first place the case is going is to a reputable VW mechanic to make sure that it is usable. I'm hoping so.
I hear a lot of people love or hate 1641. I want to get opinions on the combination. I thought it might be great with the stock PDSIT 32a.
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My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
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rustyfastback
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2002
Posts: 839
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a 1641 in both my '68 & '66 squarebacks. Both dual port with stock pdsit's off a '67 with stock jets. I have Mahle 87mm slip in graphite coated "forged" pistons in my '66 I have put 30,000 miles on the engine, runs great & gets about 28mpg on the highway w/ plenty of power to spare. I have '87 Mahle cast slip in pistons in my '68 & have about 4,000 miles on the engine. The '68 does seem to run hotter than the '66 for some reason. I am also running a 1641 dual port in my double cab w/ type 3 straight axle, drove on a 500 mile road trip no problems. Just stay away from those cheapo made in China 87mm piston sets. Buy the Mahle '87mm "forged" for best quality. About $500 for the forged & $250 for the cast. |
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one4house
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rustyfastback wrote: |
| I have a 1641 in both my '68 & '66 squarebacks. Both dual port with stock pdsit's off a '67 with stock jets. I have Mahle 87mm slip in graphite coated "forged" pistons in my '66 I have put 30,000 miles on the engine, runs great & gets about 28mpg on the highway w/ plenty of power to spare. I have '87 Mahle cast slip in pistons in my '68 & have about 4,000 miles on the engine. The '68 does seem to run hotter than the '66 for some reason. I am also running a 1641 dual port in my double cab w/ type 3 straight axle, drove on a 500 mile road trip no problems. Just stay away from those cheapo made in China 87mm piston sets. Buy the Mahle '87mm "forged" for best quality. About $500 for the forged & $250 for the cast. |
I live in a high heat area. 90 to 100 everyday for 3 months out of the year. I would opt for the high end set. You have no cooling issues with that set in your 66?
I'm still on the fence. I know this thing ran great with the current set. I just though.....typical.....If it's apart, why not make it better?
Mine is single port. Used to cruise 70 mph all day long with no issues and great mileage. The freeway flyer helps that, but I never thought a little single port could be this nice. It is a shame it wasn't built right.
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rustyfastback
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Joined: July 31, 2002
Posts: 839
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are driving in those temps a lot I would stick with the 85.5. My '66 mostly stays cool (I don't have a head temp gauge though) only a few times in stop & go traffic it has gotten a little hot. I rarely drive my '66 square in temps 90 or above anyway. I jump in my truck with a/c when its that hot. I think the 1600 single port is a perfect all around daily driver. |
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one4house
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009
Posts: 1121
Location: Sherman Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| rustyfastback wrote: |
| If you are driving in those temps a lot I would stick with the 85.5. My '66 mostly stays cool (I don't have a head temp gauge though) only a few times in stop & go traffic it has gotten a little hot. I rarely drive my '66 square in temps 90 or above anyway. I jump in my truck with a/c when its that hot. I think the 1600 single port is a perfect all around daily driver. |
Thanks for the further info.
After a bit of thinking last night, I had decided to stay 1600. This engine, before trying to kill itself, ran way to good to change anything up. I want it back to the way it was.
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My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| one4house wrote: |
| rustyfastback wrote: |
| If you are driving in those temps a lot I would stick with the 85.5. My '66 mostly stays cool (I don't have a head temp gauge though) only a few times in stop & go traffic it has gotten a little hot. I rarely drive my '66 square in temps 90 or above anyway. I jump in my truck with a/c when its that hot. I think the 1600 single port is a perfect all around daily driver. |
Thanks for the further info.
After a bit of thinking last night, I had decided to stay 1600. This engine, before trying to kill itself, ran way to good to change anything up. I want it back to the way it was. |
Good choice in keeping it a 1600. My 65 Notch has 1 that I love, and I drive it in any kind of heat. It's been to Carthage Missouri in 95* heat, among other places. In fact it's my summer car.  A "little" 1600 with dual Solex carbs, and a freeway flier trans makes a great combo for all around use, but will swallow highway miles like nothing.  I love mine. 
If possible, try and find an NOS 1600 forged set of pistons and cylinders. They'll last forever.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
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