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Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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 Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Lionhart94010 wrote: |
After years of looking for ways to get around the limitations of the T1 engine the only truly viable solution I have come up with is to:
carefully swap to a more modern watercooled engine
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fixed it for you 
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Skills, before I heard of super squishy’s it was looking as thou a suby/911 transplant was the only way to get the power and reliability I was looking for; however as I have rather rare T2’s, an SO-72/6 & a 71 DC, I want to keep them close to stock, so they can be put back to OEM some day if desired…
SS pistons sound like the perfect solution for T2 Buses, and if John made them in 90.5 or 85.5 I would buy a set in a hart beat; for me 90.5 would be a NA/ engine, and I’d probably Turbo it if there were only 85.5’s SS pistons available 
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6983
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionhart94010 wrote: |
SS pistons sound like the perfect solution for T2 Buses, and if John made them in 90.5 or 85.5 I would buy a set in a hart beat; for me 90.5 would be a NA/ engine, and I’d probably Turbo it if there were only 85.5’s SS pistons available |
I'm a bit confused. You're bosting about SS positions and have never used them? You say you want reliability and then state you'd run a turbo? So you're giving advice on products you've never used?
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| socalbusguy wrote: |
Totally comfortable at 60-65 in the right lane
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Stock is fine.
I have driven the snot out of my poor bus all summer
(24,000 miles since April 25th).
Stock 1600 repair total so far . . . $3.00 generator brushes.
We have done L.A. scrum on the 405/101/91/215, etc just fine.
We also climbed every damn mountain range on the continent.
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socalbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 65
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| socalbusguy wrote: |
Totally comfortable at 60-65 in the right lane
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Stock is fine.
I have driven the snot out of my poor bus all summer
(24,000 miles since April 25th).
Stock 1600 repair total so far . . . $3.00 generator brushes.
We have done L.A. scrum on the 405/101/91/215, etc just fine.
We also climbed every damn mountain range on the continent.
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wow that is awesome!
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Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| richparker wrote: |
| Lionhart94010 wrote: |
SS pistons sound like the perfect solution for T2 Buses, and if John made them in 90.5 or 85.5 I would buy a set in a hart beat; for me 90.5 would be a NA/ engine, and I’d probably Turbo it if there were only 85.5’s SS pistons available |
I'm a bit confused. You're bosting about SS positions and have never used them? You say you want reliability and then state you'd run a turbo? So you're giving advice on products you've never used? |
No not boasting and yes one can make good recommendations based on through research and reading the opinion of people that do have and use SS pistons, John @ ACN, Mark Harney, Eric Allred etc… feel free to read every post about squishies on thesamba and other forums to disprove what I said…
My intention is to let the original poster know about squishies so he does not make the same mistake I did, because despite SS pistons having been out for more than ten years; no one ever brought them up when I was seeking advice and searching thesamba… and now I own more 90.5 P&C/Heads/Cases to build engines than I have life left to drive the miles they will last, had I know about SS pistons I would have bought them instead and had it running by now. I will buy a set some day and will share the data as regards to their performance in a T2 Bus, but at the moment all my time and $$$ are going into rebuilding my house.
FYI for those who are interested in squishies
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253679&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=573967&start=0
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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socalbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 65
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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nice post I am reading about these squishes had absolutely no clue these even existed
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| socalbusguy wrote: |
Totally comfortable at 60-65 in the right lane
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Stock is fine.
I have driven the snot out of my poor bus all summer
(24,000 miles since April 25th).
Stock 1600 repair total so far . . . $3.00 generator brushes.
We have done L.A. scrum on the 405/101/91/215, etc just fine.
We also climbed every damn mountain range on the continent.
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So two people who drove 20,000+ miles a year in their T1 buses said stock is extremely reliable. Think about it.
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socalbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 65
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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 Thanks for the heads up SGKent
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
So two people who drove 20,000+ miles a year in their T1 buses said stock is extremely reliable. Think about it. |
Make that 2 and 3/4. I only managed 17,000 last year. 
Absolutely necessary repair bills this year have totaled 0$.
Misc. tune-up parts skyrocketed into the $25 range this year, for some gaskets and one exhaust donut set I installed incorrectly in March.
Oil changes cost $8.65 every 3k miles. ($11.86 if you buy it by the quart.)
Robbie
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:01 am Post subject: |
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going to play devils advocate here....
was it last year that colin had head issues?
didn't you have a oil pump pissing out oil this year colin?
steve, were you not chasing a rear main seal leak last year?
come on...reliable and having to constantly nurse these junks are 2 way different things....
as I said earlier, I love all 3 of mine. after I dialed in the learning curve on the swap, it has required nothing....
I have adjusted the valves twice on the camper so far...
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
going to play devils advocate here....
..reliable and having to constantly nurse these CARS are 2 way different things....
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True! I've spent numerous hours detailing my sliding door lock mechanism, ensuring the jack hold-down strap is flawless, and ministering to the longevity of the car. Sometimes I adjust the valves for fun. So sue me.
I'd be lying if I tried to say I didn't spend a small fortune on the bus this year, but purely necessary repairs have not exceeded double digit dollar amounts. Skills I think you know as much as anyone how things like a spark plug timesert repair turn into an engine rebuild, compartment paint, and chassis undercoat in one evening. 
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| richparker wrote: |
| Lionhart94010 wrote: |
SS pistons sound like the perfect solution for T2 Buses, and if John made them in 90.5 or 85.5 I would buy a set in a hart beat; for me 90.5 would be a NA/ engine, and I’d probably Turbo it if there were only 85.5’s SS pistons available |
I'm a bit confused. You're bosting about SS positions and have never used them? You say you want reliability and then state you'd run a turbo? So you're giving advice on products you've never used? |
yes it's usually a good idea to keep fingers off the keys unless you have real, proper experience with a particular product or process
Reading other numpties' opinions - or cut 'n pastes - on the internet is NOT really research, is it? |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
going to play devils advocate here....
..reliable and having to constantly nurse these CARS are 2 way different things....
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True! I've spent numerous hours detailing my sliding door lock mechanism, ensuring the jack hold-down strap is flawless, and ministering to the longevity of the car. Sometimes I adjust the valves for fun. So sue me.
I'd be lying if I tried to say I didn't spend a small fortune on the bus this year, but purely necessary repairs have not exceeded double digit dollar amounts. Skills I think you know as much as anyone how things like a spark plug timesert repair turn into an engine rebuild, compartment paint, and chassis undercoat in one evening. |
here is the issue in my eyes.... (mind you, they are 36 years old and from the east coast. lots of salt and welding flash....)
lets be real.....
at least once...sometimes twice a week a new member pops in...these folks are of the "lifestyle" variety... as in "we bought it because it was cute, neat-o always wanted one"
these folks are clueless to what it REALLY takes to own a bus...some are gentleman mechanics...who try, yet fuck up gapping points...
these are the folks who make 100k+ a year, drive new cars, live in nice houses and don't find it "charming" to have a bus "mark it's spot" or "smell like a bus" (gas and oil)
when you add up the cost of a conversion that makes your bus SAFER as you can travel 65-70 without wearing your getting harder to build correctly china aircooled and the simple "set it and forget it" mentality it's a no brainer to some...
when you add all the power, heat and a/c you could want, you have a viable vehicle to do some hard core travel.
some love to reminisce of a time gone by...and that's fine but it is not the majority of new bus owners...when they hit the key they don't want to think about it...they don't want rub blocks snapping off points, they don't want carbs that boil over or need to be tweeked as the temps change, they don't want to adjust valves...they don't want the REAL possibility of being in a DANGEROUS side of the road situation.....they want to have fun in their "cute, neat-o, always wanted one" vw bus...
who cares what powers it.....as long as it is being enjoyed do you think the photo album gives 2 shits how the adventure happened? is that photo album going to be littered with side of the road deck lid open photos? or beautiful sunsets?
just my 0.02....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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socalbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 65
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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wow skills, interesting post
I pulled my engine out today so I am learning, everybody has to start somewhere, although I haven't been a vw bus owner for very long I have always wanted one lol and I want to learn how to work on it myself which is why I am a member of this forum
oh by the way I love the smell of oil and gas that comes from the bus
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1971 Bay Window Transporter
1974 Original Sunroof Bay Window Transporter |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: |
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just trying to give another slant on the joys of bus ownership....
not everyone want's fragile 100 year old technology. can it be done? people do it day in and day out....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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socalbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 65
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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yeah the "joys" of ownership right
I have definitely felt that with the buses I have, but it really is fun to work on these things and fix them up
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
going to play devils advocate here....
was it last year that colin had head issues?
didn't you have a oil pump pissing out oil this year colin?
steve, were you not chasing a rear main seal leak last year?
come on...reliable and having to constantly nurse these junks are 2 way different things....
as I said earlier, I love all 3 of mine. after I dialed in the learning curve on the swap, it has required nothing....
I have adjusted the valves twice on the camper so far... |
totally apples and oranges. I have a T4. Colin had aftermarket heads on his T1. Putting stock heads on it solved his bus's problem. Notice he is using his stock T1 to cruise the USA instead of his stock T4. I am looking for a clean stock 1971 at the right price in the right condition as we type for a future USA tour. I have no interest in a swap. When my T4 sells it will make a profit. My Acura and Sable will not.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
totally apples and oranges.. |
how????
that photo was of him having his oil pump out of the thing....
the heads....ok...aftermarket junk..80% of the people here will run with them.
flywheel seal? aftermarket junk or old technology? only you can decide that.
the bottom line is both of you had your life interrupted for stuff that has a near zero failure rate on todays cars.
I am not selling any of my buses, but if I did I would love to put my bus and your bus in a barret/mecum etc auction and see who's bus did more money.
having owned a bus since I was 11 I can tell you the demographic has changed....I use to be hard core "air cooled only man" but I want bang for my buck in my old age.
and why a T1? that statement tells me you yourself don't trust a T4....and I hate to even say it but a late bus is a treat to drive...
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| that statement tells me you yourself don't trust a T4....and I hate to even say it but a late bus is a treat to drive... |
Hard to explain. I trust my bus explicitly but I would not go skydiving without a spare parachute. When I went diving both myself and my buddy either had a spare regulator or pony tank. I carry a properly inflated spare tire most of the time.
Some T4 parts are a b**ch to find. One can look for a year to find a part then fall into 3 of them in an afternoon. I don't want to carry parts, and a spare engine in a trailer with me when I go on a 10,000 mile trip. I can find 1600 T1 parts in every town in the USA. Someone always has a spare T1 bug in their backyard or bone yard no matter where one goes. To me that is a reserve parachute. Call me impatient but I am not someone who enjoys sitting in a small town calling all over to find a widget for a T4. I would feel the same about a Sub conversion unless it was a new engine with dealer parts within 2 or 3 days. We needed service on the Acura on one trip, and service on the Sable on 2 trips. In neither case did we go more than a couple hundred yards out of our way and spend more than an hour or two in the waiting area. T1 engine parts aren't quite that common but almost.
Another option for us would be to build a T1 engine, get conversion tin, change the input shaft on the trans, and use the T1 engine on long out of state trips.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Since everyone is posting "opinions" here...I will just throw out mine....and my observations.
I dont drive buses. I have....for a reasonable amount of time and worked on more than a few. Not a bus expert.....but have put more miles on type 4 engines than many bus owners.
In the beginning....the type 4 engine was built for the 411 and 412...and in that application with gearing suited to its power band...a little more than enough power, much lower weight and much better aerodynamics and excellent gearing......the reliability of one that is properly and correctly cared for....was excellent. When gotten new and cared for properly 100-125k miles with no failures and major assemblies to renew...was common.
I see most sides of this debate.....as even the type 4 as reconfigured to work in the bus.....is underpowered. Not that it cannot cruise at 65-70 mph...with AC and a shit-ton of crap in it in a bus....but it does so working very hard. Lots of abuse to the components.
The type 4 engine (and the interesting people) are the only reason I spend time on the bus forum....but the level of failures and worn out parts bus owners have even with the type 4 (as compared to the type 1 based engine)....is huge compared to the level that most 411/412/914 owners had......and this is looking back quite a few years....and I realize that some of this is a parts quality issue and some is 40+ year old engine cases etc.
The bus beats the crap out of these engines. No way around that. For what most people want to cart around...in a 4000+ lb vehicle....if I HAD to have a bus because I like the vibe...and the lifestyle.....and the look...and the workmanship....and I was REALLY going to use it for camping and traveling long distances (like many owners do...and I applaud that).....
.....I would put a more modern engine in it.
Me....I might opt for one of the Euro conversions I saw years back that puts a watercooled 1.8 or 2.2 liter Golf mill in the back with a transaxle adapter....personally if I was fabricating...in largely the same space I could probably drop a 2.5L five cylinder VW engine into it...utterly reliable and gobs or torque at 170-190hp. So I understand the suby vibe
To me...vacationing in a vehicle is about relaxation and no worries. I have camped out of my 411 wagon and my 412....and even lived out of it for a day stuck in a 30 mile traffic jam in 13" of snow....love that gas furnace ...so I get the vibe....but am not willing to risk what few holiday hours I get in life babying an engine or risking (more than normal) having to crawl underneath and drop the engine or dolly the damn thing home.
Lastly...i also fully understand why many would not convert to a WC engine. Its a different aesthetic. My 412 will never have anything under the hood other than a mildly updated 1.7L and improved D-jet system. The car is to unique to change it from what it is ...(tourist 2 door with factory four speed and ever document and plate ever issued on it). But its even more utterly reliable than it was factory stock due to improvements across the board in engine, trans, wiring, and suspension.
However....if I ever get urge to go faster in a 412....I would not be against buying another chassis (if I can find one)...and dumping in a watercooled engine. Just not in the one I own.
Ray |
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