bostig or 2.5 subi for full westy auto, occasional towing.

cobiachaser

i have a 87 full westy auto, the motor is tired and i wuold never think of towing a small 16-17 ft fl style fats skiff. We are hoping to have a motor in the van in the next two mo. so when its freezing in DC i can load up and head down to FL and fish for a week or two at a time. i am worried that if i put a bostig conversion in the van that i will have to beat on the van too much to be able to tow the small skiff down to FL. 135hp vs 175. with the subi. the bostig is basically plug and play and the subi is a little more involved with the instal. i am not installing the motor i am having either my local mechanic do it who is very fond of the bostig conversion but i am just very worried that if i drop close to 9k to put a zetec motor in it and i am just going to be mad that its too under powered to tow the skiff in traffic going 65-70. front brakes will be getting the brake upgrade everyone is selling and i am thinking about going with the audi rotors and jetta calipers for the rear brake upgrade.

i just want to be able to hook up the skiff and drive down to FL and chase some redfish and speckled trout and stay in my van. i am ready for the escape pod to be up to snuff where we are not worried about it breaking down on the way.

what are you opinions on what motor would be best for towing a small skiff that is 2000 lbs total with trailer, or pretty damn close to that weight.

i have looked into all the engine swaps and i already have a AT trans most seem to work better with manual transmissions. but with the amount of driving i do on the highway in traffic i would like to keep the AT. obviously a trans cooler will be added as well as a oil cooler added for god measure.

what are your thoughts on this>

ThankYouJerry · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject:

Well… one has 130 HP the other has 170 HP. That kinda says a lot especially when considering towing 2000 lbs. The auto trans can handle either with no problem. The VW 1.8T is another option. I'm currently trying to work out a few bugs with my 1.8T/auto and which ring and pinion is best. I opted for a 3.73 and I think it's probably the culprit that's slowing me down compared to others that have the stock R&P with a 1.8T. Regardless, the 1.8T is kinda the latest flavor of the day. Of course, there are also TDI swaps to consider $$$.
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1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD

Jon_slider · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject:

http://www.vanaru.com
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Tobias Duncan · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:06 am Post subject:

I would worry more about the transmission than the engine.
The AT is said to be more robust but these vans are not built for towing.

plysaker · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject:

I tow my jetski behind my Riv w/Bostig. In the glorious NW.

Lot's of hills here.

I went Bostig for cost, Parts accessibility, and finally the Mechanic.

Me.

If your not the Mechanic, going with what your Mech says you should might be smart. Either way, it's still a aging rig and lots of other work will need to be done along the way.

Subie's have their charm, but you literally have to assemble the end to end process from multiple vendors, or deal with sub-standadrd elements. small-cars this, Rocky's that.

I'd like ,more power, but I'm manual and I rev HIGH sometimes.

With an AT, I'd go 1.8T if you can get a motor cheaply enough. They are not cheap.

my rarely expressed 2 cents.
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"Darth Blue" 1985 ASI Bostig Reemo-falia! More than the Sum of His Parts, Which are many. Curently on the rack, getting a new heart. From Ford. Smile

"Snowball" White 1967 Franken-Fastback, a survivor's story. At least 3 cars donated to the project.

davevickery · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject:

How did this idea that a Subaru swap is some short of patched together collection of parts come from? It is the most common swap out there with multiple vendors making complete kits. People can pick and choose between them or mix and match.

A 2.5 would be my choice for the extra power.

Jon_slider · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject:

cobiachaser · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:21 am Post subject:

my vanagon mechanic is a huge fan of the bostig swap. my family is a ford family. my sister has a 2010 focus, i know its not the same motor but she has not had a single problem in 130k miles other than general maintenance
the thought has crossed my mind about getting a zetec motor and pulling the head and having it sent out to have the ports done for low-mid range power and raise the compression on the head about a point to where it would need to require premium fuel ], i have looked online and found out acertain yr factory intake produces around 10 more hp, and i am sure there are a few more bolt on parts you can install such as under drive pullys, throttle body and maybe a 4-2-1 header to a custom fabbed exhaust. i am trying to keep from having to rev the hell out of the motor. i have been told plenty of times that the trans will hold it.

I would like to go the subi 2.5 swap i think but i know certain years had head gasket issues/recalls ( i had a 04 forester that has a faulty HG) how well does the 2.5 subi swap work with a auto trans? cause there area few places i have found online that you can drive your van in for around 10k and drive out with a full running working subi swap. there is even a guy selling full subi swaps in the classified section with rebuilt motor and modified harness for 7k. if a used subi motor is being installed id like to be able to have the shop doing the swap pull the heads for me so i can send them out to be ported and worked over while the motor is out of the car and replace with metal head gaskets i would think that a mild port job/clean up for low-mid range power and port matching the intake mani to the head should be good for at least a real 20hp and even possibly extrude honing the intake mani or see if the forester turbo intake mani is a direct performance swap it is pretty hard to get power out of a 2.5 non turbo motor with out spending a million dollars

i have seen the 1.8t swap but i was not sure how well it will do with a auto trans. with out swapping out the R&P but i do plan on rebuilding the trans and adding a LSD regardless of what motor is in it, when ever it needs it. right after i purchased the van i flushed the trans

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

You do know that that Zetec engine is capable of 300 easy horses with a couple of simple computer bumps, and accessory hot rod updtaes don't you?

Get on the internet and check out guys that are bumping them up to 1000 horse.

Your only limitations are the trans & rear end being able to handle to HP updates.

The Zetec engine is the way to go--simple, easy to convert & to work on in comparison to the other available engine updates.
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T.K.

Jon_slider · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:45 am Post subject:

> i am trying to keep from having to rev the hell out of the motor.

The Bostig is a high revving motor. That is where Horsepower comes from, Revs. If you don't want a high revving motor, don't get a Bostig.

yeah, you can do lots of things to motors to port, polish, and add power, but, your transaxle was built for and paired to a 90hp motor. You can not run 300 horses through a Vanagon tranny for long.

If you want a Bostig, I suggest you go drive one first. If you want a Subaru, also drive one first.

If you have questions about which year motor subaru blows gaskets, contact vanaru and discuss your concerns, while there, discuss the pros and cons of the power level of the subaru vs the bostig. Then call Bostig and have the same conversation, so you know what both vendors say, directly, not just hearsay on an internet forum.

Yes the 1.8t works with an auto. Contact TequilaSunset, I believe he has a 1.8t with an auto. Then contact his Vendor and pick their brain on ring and pinions so you again, have info direct from the horses mouth.

fwiw, I dont think you can afford a 1.8t. I suggest you work up a cost comparison for the motors you are considering, with all the accessories and tunings you are considering.

enjoy whatever you get, let us know how it works out
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

Rocky Mountain Westy · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:37 am Post subject:

You are in a tough spot if your budget is $10k and your paying someone else to do it and you want the heads ported and polished and such.

We do lots of Subaru 2.5 swaps. My personal camper is a 85 with a 2.5 Subaru and auto trans. I regeared the trans which if your having your transmission rebuilt, you should do. Although I am doubtful the Zetec will pull the regeared trans with out motor mods.

So this is your camper, you want it to be reliable and simple. 165 hp is enough and anymore is probably pushing the tranny especially towing. Put in a throttle cable 2.5 Subaru. It is simple and reliable and great power.

Here is how our pricing works (roughly)

1st Category, the engine: Find a 2.5L with all the injection, harness, computer. About $1500 then do a "Correct Rebuild" add $3500. So that is $5k

2nd Category, All the swap parts and parts that commonly go in to refurbing a 25 year old VW camper including coolant pipes and gas tank reseal. cooling system, Subaru o2 sensors, knock sensor, this kind of stuff. This is about another $5k

Then there is the labor. Professional shops that know what they are doing, do it right and stand behind their work charge $100 per hour. It takes around 50 hours to do the conversion along with the other common rebuild and mechanical restoration and clean up. About another $5k

I know there are people who can do it cheaper with parts from home depot and there buddy on the weekends. If you want a professional job using quality parts. It takes $15k to do a Subaru conversion. Your tranny would be extra and I would budget $4k for that to regear and LSD it.

Hope this perspective helps. Let me know if I can help.
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Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]

The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133

insyncro · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:20 am Post subject:

Great post with realistic numbers above.

Paying someone to do the work is a real cost.

Sure there is a thread showing a Subaru conversion completed for $3500 or whatever...that is not on par quality wise, parts wise or performance wise with the conversion and upgrades painted in Mike's post.

I am building a Bostig Westy currently with a rebuilt, auxiliary cooled and temperature monitored 4 speed with a Peliquin limited slip.
This van will get a hitop and was not designed to tow, but would easily tow a small utility trailer with this setup.

HENDO · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject:

jimf909 · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject:

RMW, thanks for the careful explanation. That aligns very closely with what I've heard from Northwesty and PeaceVans here in Seattle. I'm sure some people get by doing a conversion at a lower cost but the savings are usually achieved at a cost of any combination of the following: deferred maintenance (motor or other parts), dodgy or no warranty, many hours of time by the owner, etc.
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- Jim

dobryan · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject:

jimf909 · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject:

Westified · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject:

You need to look at torque instead of hp for towing. The more torque the better. I would guess the Subaru would give you better low end torque than the Bostig. Please put brakes on your boat trailer if you are towing it that far.

I have pulled a 17 ft Boston Whaler with my 1.9 liter Westy. I don't recommend it. I only towed it 10 miles over and back to my boat dealer once. Flat out on the expressway 50 mph was my max speed. The rig weighs 2,300 lbs loaded with fuel and accessories. Yes i have trailer brakes. I would not try and pull it up a boat ramp with my Westy. Many of the ramps in the Florida Keys are steep. Chock your wheels when launching and retrieving. I have seen 3 cars submerged at the boat ramps. I have been considering the 6 cylinder subaru for my westy. If you get the 2.5 suby let me know how it does towing your boat. Also if you have an automatic I would put a good transmission cooler on it for towing. Make sure you have a strong hitch. I have heard good things about the Burley hitch.
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1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022.

tlbranth · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject:

I have a 2.5 Subaru from a 2004 Forester. I installed a Burley receiver hitch which I highly recommend. I recently pulled a motorcycle from Seattle to Deadwood, SD without problem. I do have a 4 speed standard transmission. The load probably totaled 1500lb and I could barely tell I was pulling anything. One thing my bus could use is taller top gears. I drive like an old lady and do so to maximize mileage. A cheaper bastard you have never met. I travelled at between 55 and 60mph and averaged close to 20mpg which is pretty much what I get without a trailer. To my thinking, your weakest link will be brakes. The Vanagon can barely stop itself, although I've improved things by messing with the rear drum brakes (adding shims). To make things safer, I installed drum electric brakes on the Aluma trailer. I wouldn't pull 2,000 lb without trailer brakes. But the engine (Subaru) won't have a lick of trouble pulling your boat.
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Terry

1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission.


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