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Bostig coolant Temps
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:02 pm    Post subject: Bostig coolant Temps Reply with quote

What is "normal" ?

So to context it, we took a long cruise around the west. Bend-Steens-Alvord-Tetons-Yellowstone-Bozeman-GNP-Flathead NF-Missoula-Lolo NF-Wallowas and back to bend.

Several of those passes are brutal! Shocked I flogged the poor little Zetec hard Twisted Evil

What I noticed, I have an ultragauge so I could see cylinder head temps, with an alarm set at 235F.

I seemed to hit that often and climb past up to 240F on long grades climbing hard. Shocked Think

What is normal? I suspect an air bubble in the radiator that is floating up when we head up hills. But thats speculation.

Just wanted to see what everyone with some miles and trips on their bostigs have experienced.
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vanagonjon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what my exact coolant temp is but it never varies from the middle of the factory gauge on the dash. I have had the kit in for over 5 years now. You may have a bubble somewhere.
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those head temps match my experience almost exactly as measured by my Ultragauge.
Alarm at 235 and I hit it with any sustained cruising over 60-65 or long hill.
I did a couple mountain passes last month and just backed off when I hit 245. I figure as long as that number drops fast when you come off throttle and the dash needle isn't climbing a lot than the cooling system is doing its job.
FWIW, Ive had this engine for years and just recently installed the Ultragauge so the first 3 yrs of my conversion it was driven hard with no idea how hot the head was and it didn't seem to flinch.
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turbotransporter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've put about 5000 miles on my Bostig RG4 with a new crate Zetec though I am using a Scan Gauge to monitor the engine conditions. I have had similar experiences with head temps rising as high as 248F on long grades at 65/70 mph/4th gear and the head temps drop quickly if I ease up on the throttle and or as I decend.

Under the same long grade load conditions, the stock coolant temp gauge will also rise to the 3/4 mark, the radiator cooling fan will cycle on and off periodically. The coolant temp needle will return to slightly above the LED when the head temps drop to 208/216F on flat road (or nearly) at 65/70 mph.

My entire cooling and heating system is 5 years old or less, I'm using Prestone 50/50 coolant, my radiator fan and controls work perfectly and I do not have any air trapped in my system.

Don't worry, Drive it! Cool
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kourt
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My story: Bostig RG1 with Ultragauge, automatic transmission. New Motorcraft water pump, 50/50 coolant ratio, properly functioning radiator fan. New radiator, full Westy, major mountain driving this summer (NM, UT, CO, AZ). No bubbles in my system--I use pressurized tanks to drive coolant through the system until it bleeds all air out.

I have the Ultragauge alarm set at 245 degrees. I seldom get that hot, but there have been a few really long and steep passes where I get close.

I drive the van hard--75MPH in many cases--with heavy loads. This summer it was three men, all their backcountry gear, and all their food and water for two weeks in the van--about 6,000 lbs gross, through the mountains. Several passes at 10,000 or 12,000 ft.

CHTs will sit around 230 on straight highway driving in 95 degree summers. In the mountain passes, it is thankfully cooler outside and the van can tolerate the occasional heat load. The Ultragauge makes responsibly monitoring these temps very easy.

I've added an external oil cooler to the Zetec but that has had very little effect, frankly. The HC oilpan has so much oil volume that it contributes to better cooling.

Bottom line: drive it. The Zetec has no problem with revving for hours at 4500 RPM on hot days. If you blow up the engine, just get another one from the junkyard--that's why I went with the Bostig... but I have no expectation of the engine blowing up. I have really thrashed my Bostig this summer and it took every beating I could dish out and more, and kept going. The transmission is now the weak point!

kourt

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thasty07
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turbotransporter wrote:
I have had similar experiences with head temps rising as high as 248F on long grades at 65/70 mph/4th gear and the head temps drop quickly if I ease up on the throttle and or as I decend.


Are you seriously able to cruise up hills at 65/70 in 4th gear??

I have to drop into third and am hitting close to 5 grand to maintain even close to that speed.

I have been suspecting something is wrong/ lack of power but havent had any signs other than the van feels WBX

As for the temps, thanks for all the info, I will continue flogging away! Twisted Evil
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turbotransporter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thasty07 wrote:
turbotransporter wrote:
I have had similar experiences with head temps rising as high as 248F on long grades at 65/70 mph/4th gear and the head temps drop quickly if I ease up on the throttle and or as I decend.


Are you seriously able to cruise up hills at 65/70 in 4th gear??

I have to drop into third and am hitting close to 5 grand to maintain even close to that speed.

I have been suspecting something is wrong/ lack of power but havent had any signs other than the van feels WBX

As for the temps, thanks for all the info, I will continue flogging away! Twisted Evil


Sorry, I wasn't more specific... I was refering to cruising up the long gradual hills on I-5 from Seattle heading North to Vancouver or South to Portland. My great running waterboxer wouldn't/couldn't keep up with the 65/70 mph traffic flow so I usually had keep right and try to pass the 18 wheelers. The Bostig/Zetec engine has no trouble keeping up but I do keep an eye on head and coolant temps...
5K rpms doesn't seem outrageous for the Zetec but personally I probably wouldn't run at 65/70 in third gear much if at all. The Zetec will surely do it but I'm just not in that much of a hurry in my Westy.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With 7 Bostigs under my belt, all with new rads and stainless pipes, they run on the cool side, even when driven hard.

Wiring in a manual Rad fan switch and flip it before grades.
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alnvilma
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's nice to have pedal left after 4000 rpm but I'm surprised to hear so many folks cruising above that!
I drive my flying brick at a true 60mph and the Zetech is so smooth and comfy at 3300-3400 and returns a consistent 23.5 mpg.
I just cringe to hear of someone holding any 4 banger at 5000. I don't think that's the sweet spot (way past the torque curve), Ford had in mind for the Focus.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ford Focus is used as a rental and pizza delivery vehicle all over.
In both cases, they see major abuse.
As long as you don't get one of those engines after 200,000 miles, it can handle pretty much whatever you throw at it.
Remember, it's an engine and will need maintenance.
Drive it hard, remember to give it some love ever 5000 miles.
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kourt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy all,

In the 8000 miles I have driven my Bostig Vanagon since Memorial Day, I have discovered the following:

1. At 70 MPH on freeways or 10 MPH on steep mountain roads, the engine delivers its best performance and response at 4000 to 5000 RPM. 3000 RPM will not get me up a long 6% hill in a Vanagon.

2. My fuel economy increased as my average RPMs increased over all the road trips. Driving at 3800 RPMs in my full Westy would get me around 16.8 MPG... but in the mountains, where RPM demand was always high, that economy improved markedly to 17.3 MPG.

4000 RPM is not, by any means, "way past the torque curve"... I think you're just entering the sweet spot at 4000 RPM. This is typical of 4 cylinder engines...

Point #2 makes no sense, but I was careful to check with a calibrated OBD speedometer and other GPS devices.

kourt


Last edited by kourt on Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
they run on the cool side, even when driven hard.



What is your definition of "cool side" Thats what I was trying to figure out, what is the normal range. Everyone says 235 seems normal, are you saying your under that?
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alnvilma wrote:

I just cringe to hear of someone holding any 4 banger at 5000. I don't think that's the sweet spot (way past the torque curve), Ford had in mind for the Focus.


I asked Jim about it, and even he said
"You need to be in third in a high load situation like that. That's how the vanagon is designed to even work with 90hp. High numerical gearing, but now you have an extra 1000 rpm rev band, you need to use it!"

I was driving it like you were probably and just struggling up hills, Jim corrected me quickly Very Happy
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thasty07 wrote:
insyncro wrote:
they run on the cool side, even when driven hard.



What is your definition of "cool side" Thats what I was trying to figure out, what is the normal range. Everyone says 235 seems normal, are you saying your under that?


I have only had them run that hot when something was wrong.
My experiences have had ECUs go bad and the crankcase breather system was not allowing enough pressure to be relieved from the bottom end.
Jim diagnosed the bad ECU by a certain code, can't remember what it was, but a different ECU made a huge difference and brought temps down to below the boiling point.

The stock hose that connects to the PCV valve has a serious problem collapsing.
This can be read about in Zetec forums and race forums.
I use a much more stout hose that will not collapse and keep pressure from building.

I am not saying these are your issues, just my experiences with the Zetec.
I will not install one without a new radiator ever again!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
The stock hose that connects to the PCV valve has a serious problem collapsing.
This can be read about in Zetec forums and race forums.
I use a much more stout hose that will not collapse and keep pressure from building.


If you have a part number for this hose I would love to know.
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="insyncro"][quote="thasty07"]
insyncro wrote:


I have only had them run that hot when something was wrong.

!


So your saying 235 is running hot?
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="thasty07"][quote="insyncro"]
thasty07 wrote:
insyncro wrote:


I have only had them run that hot when something was wrong.

!


So your saying 235 is running hot?


I am not saying that.
I am saying the Zetecs I have dealt with run cooler than yours and a new cooling system and the ability to properly breath is what is making the difference....IMO.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have the wrong thread title. The temp you are asking about is the cylinder head temp, not coolant temp. Big difference. The various OBD readers like the UltraGuage don't label it correctly but that is how it is. The metal of the head is one of the hottest parts of the engine. Most cars have a coolant temp sender for the ECU but not the Focus versions of the Zetec used in the Bostig conversions. They have a temp sender that screws into the metal of the head instead of a temp sender somewhere in the flow of the coolant leaving the head. The OBD readers assume it is a coolant sensor and wrongly call it that. So the higher temp is expected because of where the temp sender is located.

Mark
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CampWesty wrote:
insyncro wrote:
The stock hose that connects to the PCV valve has a serious problem collapsing.
This can be read about in Zetec forums and race forums.
I use a much more stout hose that will not collapse and keep pressure from building.


If you have a part number for this hose I would love to know.


I do not.
It is the elbow hose that exits the case behind the intake and mates with the metal pipe below the coil and Tstat housing that connects the PCA valve on the other side of the engine.

The intake side has a bend and is a thinner walled part of the hose to meet up with the nipple from the bottomend.
It is where the walls are thin that the hose will collapse.

FYI, I have ordered brand new hoses from Ford and after very few miles they will also collapse.

This is why I make my own.
HD silicone, a spring inside the stock hose or a thicker walled hose can be adapted without much work at all.

If you have a Zetec and it is running fine, you don't need to worry about this.
All you have to do is hang out under the van, safely, while someone revs the engine, if the hose is weak, you will see it collapse and hear a difference in how smooth the motor is.

Again, searching Focus, Contour or Zetec forums will shed more light if needed
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thasty07
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="thasty07"][quote="insyncro"]
thasty07 wrote:
insyncro wrote:


I have only had them run that hot when something was wrong.

!


So your saying 235 is running hot?


BTW I need to correct myself, 220 is nowhere near an overheat. Anything
under 245 is fine. over 245 indicates a problem, damage doesn't occur to
280+ (overheating)


Nevermind, just read this from the bostig website. Good to go! Cool
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