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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:14 am Post subject: |
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lshulster,
I agree about the Bentley's wiring diagrams, and have amateur radio and commercial background in electronics.
Do you have a Volt Ohm Meter? (VOM) With the engine running test for voltage at the three wire plug on the alternator. If it's 14.4 +/- good!
Check the other wires to see what voltages you are getting. Should all be close.
If the idiot light in the dash is being grounded, it will illuminate. Follow the wires and see if there's chaffing, etc.
Because you said the alternator is smoking, etc something must be grounding out somewhere. Doubt it's the Bostig circuit, I'd look at the starter, battery, etc.
The wire would be hot to the touch. Or if it's the solenoid, that'd be hot. _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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This alternator isn't smoking (that was my first alternator) just whining so far. I only get 12.3 volts at the alternator three pronged plug in the blue wire connector hole the other hole has almost no voltage. What does the 12v reading mean? I was thinking that it should be about that?
Couldn't find any wire hot to the touch around the starter or battery. I checked all the connections again and they all seemed fine. I took my dash apart and could see no obvious signs of a short. Also when I did an amp test for a voltage draw at the negative battery terminal I get no draw.
Thanks for responding. I think I have used the last of Jim's patience. I may need to seek some professional help. |
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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Jim never runs out of patience!
The alternator is not working correctly if you are reading 12.3 volts.
I have gotten them defective right out of the box! Replace the alternator.
I assume the serpentine belt is tight, and not slipping. _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the belt is slipping, I have a new tensioner and new belt.
The alternator is whining constantly now. Weird that I get 14+ every where else while the car is running including at the alternator post.
I'll see about getting another new alternator, this will be my third. |
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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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You can get a device that plugs into the cigarette lighter at Harbor Freight that tells you if the alternator is OK. LEDs light up.
You should not have 12.3 volts at the pins and 14volts elsewhere, something doesn't make sense. The whine might be the pulley bearing. Too bad you can't have it tested up where you are.
Wish I could test it in person and give you better answers. _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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thasty07 Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014 Posts: 310 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: |
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In regards to the Alternator light, try changing the relay plugged into the ECU system. Its labeled in the mannual so its easy to find. Ours started acting up one day, the light started coming on constantly and would flicker too.
Try that, they are super cheap and could be a simple problem of the Relay not working correcting if the alternator is working fine but no good on the light. |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I suppose you are referring to the E relay plugged into the fuse panel. I'll try that. thanks |
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thasty07 Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014 Posts: 310 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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lshulster wrote: |
I suppose you are referring to the E relay plugged into the fuse panel. I'll try that. thanks |
No, this relay
There are three plugged into the ECU computer system. One is for charging and and the indicator light. Might try swapping that out and see if it makes a difference. |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. I was going to try that but that relay was in so tight i didn't want to break it pulling it out. When I was poking around I actually noticed that of the three relays in the ECU it was the only one that was cool to the touch while the van was running (I thought that was strange at the time). |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Swapping the relays didn't make any difference. Jim still thinks its a current path problem but i still find it suspect that something i didn't touch during the conversion is now somehow broken (and I can't find the bad path). I tried to make sure the blue wire current path looked ok and it seems so but most of its path is under the van with the rest of the wiring. This has been a very frustration few months of a seemingly almost finished but not drive-able van. |
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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I feel your pain!
If you PM me a FAX number, I'll send you a "How to check your alternator" paper. (idiot-proof)
Tell me what the blue wire is? _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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thasty07 Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014 Posts: 310 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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So, I just reread all your posts, if I understand correctly?
Your light on your dash is acting up and wont turn off. The battery light correct?
Your first alternator went bad, the next one is whining but the volts are fine at all the locations correct?
What year is your van? 86+? Did you mess with the foil when doing the tach mod for yours?
It might be possible that you messed with the bluefoil on the back of the dash and interrupted the connection which would mean if the connection is disrupted it wouldnt turn off the light. That foil stuff is super flimsy and easy to break.
Can you drive the van? I know you said you havent been, but is this the only issue preventing you from driving? |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi thasty07,
Thanks for your thoughts.
My Van is an 89 Westy Camper.
Yes, that is a fairly accurate summary. However, even though most of my voltage readings have been very similar i recently got 12+ volts at the three pronged connector (it was disconnected to test it) at my alternator. The post at the alt, starter post, distributor post and battery all read about 14.4v. Also each time i do these measurements the readings are different from previous test, but each test spot in the Van is always close to what I get at the battery.
I didn't do the tach mod. So i hadn't screwed with my dash before all this started (first start up). That being said my foil is a mess as is my instrument cluster. Every time i take it off there are new plastic pieces and screws on the ground. I asked Jim if the problem might lie in the dash with the foil and he didn't seem convinced. I took it apart anyway looking for obvious signs of trauma, like a burnt resistor, but couldn't see anything. All other warning lights and my tach and speedo all seem to be working normally.
Yes this is the only issue keeping me from driving my van and it has been since early August. I don't drive because the alt screams now whenever i start the van, i really don't even like to start it now. |
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thasty07 Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014 Posts: 310 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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lshulster wrote: |
I don't drive because the alt screams now whenever i start the van, i really don't even like to start it now. |
I would warranty that in a heartbeat if its doing that already |
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jbnova Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2010 Posts: 118 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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thasty07 wrote: |
lshulster wrote: |
I don't drive because the alt screams now whenever i start the van, i really don't even like to start it now. |
I would warranty that in a heartbeat if its doing that already |
Yeah, if the alternator is making noise, it seems like that should be where you start. I know it seems crazy that you would get two bad alternators in a row, but it must be more common than we realize. That's the reason Bostig recommends you have the auto parts store test it before you even walk out the door.
I initially ordered the wrong alternator from Rock Auto and ended up getting the replacement from the local FLAPS. I'm glad I did, because I was able to have them test it in the store and warranty replacement will be simple if needed.
Maybe try a different brand from a different store? If it solves your problem, then tell Canadian Tire they gave you two bad ones and you want your money back. My FLAPS has no problem taking stuff back when I buy the wrong thing. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender
2wd; Bostig RG3
GoWesty (H&R) 1.5" Lift Springs + 0.5" pad in rear.
Bilstein Shocks
16" Mefros, Cooper Discoverer AT3 (215-70-16) |
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redeyeksc Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 116 Location: guelph, ON
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think I just read that you got your alternator from crappy tire. I got my from a salvage yard and it worked for a while....technically it still works, just not as well as I would have liked. I did buy mine from crappy tire, technically partsource. I went for the lifetime warranty. There was only one available. Mine has been working great. This alternator has actually been hard to source, I called a lot of salvage yards before finding one, I also went to NAPA, and Carquest who couldn't even source it for me.
I'd be willing to lend you my salvage yard one to try. I had no warning lights or issues with it, but did notice some voltage fluctuations while driving. We were preparing for a 5000km round trip with a 6 month old so i changed it out along with my battery just in case. _________________ 84 Westfalia, now with Bostig Zetec 2.0L, Manual Transmission
Alex |
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lshulster Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi Redeyeksc,
Canadian Tire was the only store that would give me the lifetime warranty, others had the alt, like Napa and other rebuilders, but with only a one or two year warranty. Is your alternator a champion?
Thanks for offering your salvage yard alt. If i had another car I would jump at the chance. If i get desperate enough i may rent a car take you up on your offer. That would at least rule out the alternator. |
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jbnova Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2010 Posts: 118 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Just buy a different alternator from some place with a good return policy. If it works, then return the crappy one to Canadian Tire. If symptoms are the same, then return the one you just got. Lifetime warranty doesn't matter if they're bad from the start. I would be trying to rule out the alternator if all other paths have led nowhere. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender
2wd; Bostig RG3
GoWesty (H&R) 1.5" Lift Springs + 0.5" pad in rear.
Bilstein Shocks
16" Mefros, Cooper Discoverer AT3 (215-70-16) |
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thasty07 Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014 Posts: 310 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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jbnova wrote: |
Just buy a different alternator from some place with a good return policy. If it works, then return the crappy one to Canadian Tire. If symptoms are the same, then return the one you just got. Lifetime warranty doesn't matter if they're bad from the start. I would be trying to rule out the alternator if all other paths have led nowhere. |
Fo reals! One year or two year warranty is still plenty. Get the thing running first, then worry about warranty items down the road! |
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redeyeksc Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 116 Location: guelph, ON
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I drive into brampton everyday for work so am willing to do a hand off there. I did get a Champion, last I checked it was putting out 14.1V almost constantly.
No noise either.
Has Jim been much help in tracking down the issue?
The salvage one would fluctuate a lot. _________________ 84 Westfalia, now with Bostig Zetec 2.0L, Manual Transmission
Alex |
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