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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming you have a distributor with a mechanical advance (SVDA, DVDA, 009) time it at 30-32* BTDC at 3500+ rpms with any hoses removed and plugged. This assumes you are driving at 4400' and above.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timing
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7808768#7808768
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO you are wasting your time trying to tune it without an Air Fuel ratio meter, the reason most people have problems with their T1 engines not idling is incorrect jetting, and/or not functioning properly manifold preheat(if it buns the heat paint where they come out of the manifolds, its working…)

For around $230 + Tax and shipping and $20-$30 for someone to weld the O2 bung into your muffler your carb problems will be solved! (Because your will know if it is really rich or lean, and by how much)

Or you could spend the rest of your life trying to get the A/F correct on your carb…

In CA with Alcohol in the fuels my experimentations showed me there is no way in hell to get the A/F where it needs to be using the lean idle drop method in the vw manual!

When I did as directed by the Factory Manual and watched my O2 A/F Gauge; the A/F was way too lean, i.e. I could not get it to idle worth an expletive… The O2 A/F Gauge explained why I had never been happy with my idles hot/cold. (in my Case way too lean)

With the A/F gauge, I was able to figure that the source of my problems was the idle jet, it was too small, after going with a two size bigger idle jet, and using the A/F gauge to adjust the idle and Fuel mixture screws, my hot and cold idling problems were solved :0)

https://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2926 (ask about extending the wire for use in a T2 Bus)
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khalimadeath
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionhart94010 wrote:
IMO you are wasting your time trying to tune it without an Air Fuel ratio meter, the reason most people have problems with their T1 engines not idling is incorrect jetting, and/or not functioning properly manifold preheat(if it buns the heat paint where they come out of the manifolds, its working…)

For around $230 + Tax and shipping and $20-$30 for someone to weld the O2 bung into your muffler your carb problems will be solved! (Because your will know if it is really rich or lean, and by how much)

Or you could spend the rest of your life trying to get the A/F correct on your carb…

In CA with Alcohol in the fuels my experimentations showed me there is no way in hell to get the A/F where it needs to be using the lean idle drop method in the vw manual!

When I did as directed by the Factory Manual and watched my O2 A/F Gauge; the A/F was way too lean, i.e. I could not get it to idle worth an expletive… The O2 A/F Gauge explained why I had never been happy with my idles hot/cold. (in my Case way too lean)

With the A/F gauge, I was able to figure that the source of my problems was the idle jet, it was too small, after going with a two size bigger idle jet, and using the A/F gauge to adjust the idle and Fuel mixture screws, my hot and cold idling problems were solved :0)

https://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2926 (ask about extending the wire for use in a T2 Bus)


I need a wideband for my other vehicle as well. I should time my motor first and see where I am at then go from there. Where is the best place to weld the bung? I am fairly certain by much research and some communication with an experienced VW guy that at my elevation the jets I went with should be good. So I have to assume at this point its the timing. Then I may look back into the jets.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For solving running issues, my air-fuel meter was one of the more entertaining wastes of money I've performed for my bus. I find it helpful for dual carb buses, but almost pointless on anything close to a stock T1 bus engine.

For fine-tuning or dealing with anomalies, maybe. But I've never encountered a stock-ish air-cooled Volkswagen that did not explicitly behave itself at idle after enduring valves, dwell, timing, and vacuum leak checks. The lean-idle setup is not foolproof, it just assumes everything else is working.

How did we get along for decades without handheld O2 meters? Wink

Robbie
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with using a standard jet number someone else has had success with is that there are so many factors that affect A/F which makes most ACVW T1 engines unique… to get an engine to run well on the stock jets, IMO, the engine/fuel needs to be at least to 95% OEM spec:

In CA having 10% Ethanol in the fuel puts the stock carb jets out of spec just with the blend…

It won’t hurt to get the timing right, but to do that you have to get a TDC tool and verify your “0” TDC, you can get the 14mm ones for about $15, hard to set your timing accurately without one, too many possible chances for errors unless you are 100% sure the pulley on your engine is the one it was indexed to at the factory/crank, case, pulley...

And to time it properly it helps to have it idling well ;0), with a 009 most just adjust Max tinning and use the A/F mixture to make it idle well… proper use of a vacuum gauge can help in getting the best timing for a particular engine.

It’s a fact that some have more time, experience and/or natural carb tuning skill than others, but for the average T2 DIY mechanic it will solve the most complex tuning piece of the puzzle, once you see you have a good AF numbers it’s pretty simple to track down other problems… that is why all modern mass produced vehicles have O2 sensor without O2 sensors modern cars would be several orders of magnitude less drivable/reliable

If you have more than one car that needs AF trouble shooting then I would go with the Innovate LM2 but that setup is more pricy…

I like having a dedicated A/F gauge on the dash of my T2, when driving and the power/idle feels wrong all I have to do is look at the A/F gauge and 9/10 times the A/F number sais it all :0)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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khalimadeath
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm okay great, well when I had the motor out I adjusted the valves and set the points on the Distributor. Before I had the motor out it ran fine.. SO, I am to assume that after I did that it caused the timing to be off.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khalimadeath wrote:
Hmm okay great, well when I had the motor out I adjusted the valves and set the points on the Distributor. Before I had the motor out it ran fine.. SO, I am to assume that after I did that it caused the timing to be off.


Yes, if you change your point gap, it will change your timing a bit.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
khalimadeath wrote:
Hmm okay great, well when I had the motor out I adjusted the valves and set the points on the Distributor. Before I had the motor out it ran fine.. SO, I am to assume that after I did that it caused the timing to be off.


Yes, if you change your point gap, it will change your timing a bit.


I can only guess its just by a bit too, cause I can almost get it to a "sweet spot" while adjusting the idle valve at temp. Once I try to drive it I have to slip the clutch a TON just to get it rolling then it dies... now I could just really suck at driving VW's.. but I drove it home with a broken throw out bearing and didnt stall it so it has to be the motor.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khalimadeath wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
khalimadeath wrote:
Hmm okay great, well when I had the motor out I adjusted the valves and set the points on the Distributor. Before I had the motor out it ran fine.. SO, I am to assume that after I did that it caused the timing to be off.


Yes, if you change your point gap, it will change your timing a bit.


I can only guess its just by a bit too, cause I can almost get it to a "sweet spot" while adjusting the idle valve at temp. Once I try to drive it I have to slip the clutch a TON just to get it rolling then it dies... now I could just really suck at driving VW's.. but I drove it home with a broken throw out bearing and didnt stall it so it has to be the motor.


Check your timing again. Are you using a timing light? I'd set it at 30* at 3500RPM. What pulley is on the engine? Are you positive you know where TDC is for that engine? If yes, set it to 30*

Now, if it's stalling when you're accelerating from a stop, I'd suspect your carb isn't adjusted correctly. Did you follow that link on how to adjust that 30/31 carb from Rob/Dave? Does the engine idle ok? Does it die when coming to a stop? Did you insure you don't have any vacuum leaks? All the vacuum plugs are on the un-used nipples on the carb?

That carb with a known good 009 distributor works perfectly. Again, it's what I have on my 1776 and the engine purrs.
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, make sure your idle jet is not clogged, many driving issues on Solex carbs are related to clogged/ too small idle jets…

Also sometimes cleaning an old carb(30K +) increases air leakage at the throttle shaft if it is worn (plugged by gunk before cleaning…) check for wobble Back / Forth, Up / Down should be no play… Worn Solex carbs are close to impossible to tune well (unless you have an O2 A/F gauge ;0)
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khalimadeath
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay update:

So I static timed it according to this guide

http://www.aircooledtech.com/timing/static/

and this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787INwvir24

My carb has fresh clean jets tuned to what was recommended from a carb builder I was told to talk to on here. Once it was timed it had a different "smother" sound. It wasnt dying at idle but here is the problem, when pressing on the accelerator once I get about an inch down fuel sounds like it cuts and almost dies. Then once I go past that it revs up super high. Then once I let off it goes low then stabilizes. I did get it to die by pressing the pedal in then out quickly a few times. So in short there is a point in the acceleration that it seems to loose fuel and when gas it cut suddenly it tries to die.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khalimadeath wrote:

009 distributor
Solex H30 31PICT
1600 single port


First lube your distributor.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7480861#7480861

Did you first do:
Valves
Plugs
Lube dist.
Dwell
Timing
Carb

009's are known for a flat spot.
Increasing the Accelerator pump volume helps.

Good luck
Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
khalimadeath wrote:

009 distributor
Solex H30 31PICT
1600 single port


First lube your distributor.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7480861#7480861

Did you first do:
Valves
Plugs
Lube dist.
Dwell
Timing
Carb

009's are known for a flat spot.
Increasing the Accelerator pump volume helps.

Good luck
Tcash


Yes I have done all of the above.. in that order as well. I think the problem is my carb, not sure what aspect of it though. I know its clean and I know the jets are set proper.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the brass jet on top of the carb, that sprays gas pointed at? It should be pointed down the throat of the carb. Did you check the spray out of that brass jet? Another person with that carb was having similar issues. He found that his brass jet was clogged. He blew it out and re-aimed it down the throat and it cured his issue.

Also, did you check that you're getting a good, solid spray/stream as soon as you pull the accelerator arm on the carb? There is an adjustment for the accelerator pump on that carb. Most of the time, the factory setting is fine but someone could of messed w/it.

Your symptoms do sound like a distributor issue. Is your 009 a Chinese copy or a true, Bosch German made one? Any chance you have a vacuum only distributor? A 205K,M or T works beautifully with that H30/31 carb. It would be a quick double check to see if that cured those symptoms.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Where is the brass jet on top of the carb, that sprays gas pointed at? It should be pointed down the throat of the carb. Did you check the spray out of that brass jet? Another person with that carb was having similar issues. He found that his brass jet was clogged. He blew it out and re-aimed it down the throat and it cured his issue.

Also, did you check that you're getting a good, solid spray/stream as soon as you pull the accelerator arm on the carb? There is an adjustment for the accelerator pump on that carb. Most of the time, the factory setting is fine but someone could of messed w/it.

Your symptoms do sound like a distributor issue. Is your 009 a Chinese copy or a true, Bosch German made one? Any chance you have a vacuum only distributor? A 205K,M or T works beautifully with that H30/31 carb. It would be a quick double check to see if that cured those symptoms.


Ill have to re check the 009, it looked pretty old when I was setting the points. Im about ready to just buy a new damn carb lol.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khalimadeath wrote:
Im about ready to just buy a new damn carb lol.

Brand new likely won't be any improvement over your current one and probably just adds a whole new set of issues. Buy a rebuilt German carb from Volkzbitz, almost the same price but it actually works right out of the box.
And team it up with the correct distributor, you'll wonder how you put up with the way it ran before.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
khalimadeath wrote:
Im about ready to just buy a new damn carb lol.

Brand new likely won't be any improvement over your current one and probably just adds a whole new set of issues. Buy a rebuilt German carb from Volkzbitz, almost the same price but it actually works right out of the box.
And team it up with the correct distributor, you'll wonder how you put up with the way it ran before.


It barely runs, Im so SICK of messing with this thing. Does anyone want this carb? Im gonna buy a different one. Ive already rebuilt it with good jets and its pretty new. I took a video I will upload shortly.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK it may or may not be published yet but here is the link/video. It normally dies after i rev it up high but it didnt in the video. I tried to drive it after the video with not much success. It died about 10 times trying to drive it around my cul de sac. it was either full on throttle or dying. Then as soon as i let out the clutch it would die.




Link
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you make sure you put the pilot jet in the right hole and the auxiliary jet in it's correct hole? Number 0 and 3 on this picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You also mentioned you had a vacuum 205T distributor. Have you tried pulling the 009 copy out and putting the 205T in?

That H30/31 carb is generally a very good carb. I've never had any problems with them after I cleaned them out and blew the jets and passages clear.

Watching that video, it's almost like that carb has a clogged spray jet in it. Have you checked to make sure the brass nozzle that points down the throat of the carb is spraying as soon as you flick the throttle?
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