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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| ... And if you went looking for a Newton on eBay in the computer section, turn around slowly, pick up the phone, and stop working on your car. |
Clearly there are differences in newton meters, Apple newtons and fig newtons.
Aloha
tp
Last edited by Tom Powell on Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Snap-Off does not manf. their torque wrenches - I forget the name of the company that does, but some Google time might prove useful in terms of lowering the price barrier to entry |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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for your amusement...
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Merian wrote: |
| Snap-Off does not manf. their torque wrenches - I forget the name of the company that does, but some Google time might prove useful in terms of lowering the price barrier to entry |
CDI possibly is the manufacturer.
There handles are black and blue, Snappy, red and black.
They were selling them direct on eBay a short time ago.
Only $30 less than Snappy retail.
I picked up my set, 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" from the truck and than ordered the 3/4" one to match...Man that sucker was big bucks, but my Rep threw in a workwear jacket to sweeten the deal. |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Merian wrote: |
for your amusement...
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Clearly that is an item, like cylinder heads, lug nuts and lug bolts that should be torqued down gradually and in the correct sequence. Good application of a "clicker" torque wrench where a beam or digital torque wrench might be difficult to use.
Aloha
tp |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| $28,000? All you need is an accurate scale and a way to establish a part that presses on the scale with the fulcrum 1 ft away from the part you use to press on the scale. |
Well it can send a sonar signal through the bolt to measure bolt stretch and read out the tension. Torque, we don't need no stinking torque! 
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| That sounds very cool and high tech, but if you are testing or calibrating a torque wrench I would think that actually measuring torque would be the thing to do. |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
| Merian wrote: |
for your amusement...
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Clearly that is an item, like cylinder heads, lug nuts and lug bolts that should be torqued down gradually and in the correct sequence. Good application of a "clicker" torque wrench where a beam or digital torque wrench might be difficult to use.
Aloha
tp |
especially since the contents are radioactive
the pic is from someone who works at Oak Ridge National Labs (not me & I'm not in the pic either) |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| That sounds very cool and high tech, but if you are testing or calibrating a torque wrench I would think that actually measuring torque would be the thing to do. |
Good one!
Yes, it does that too!
That way we can give the auto manufacturers the torque to use for an assembly to achieve the desired tension - using the same speed(s) used on the assembly line. In some applications (mostly limited to aerospace), they already use this approach so they do not have to live with the inadequacy of torque control. We really don't care about torque, but until it is economical to direct measure tension while the bolt is being tightened, it is what we have to live with.
The fastener finish has a huge effect on the torque-tension relationship, oil on threads, Never-Seez, locking compounds, etc, all can change a recommended torque setting immensely. Someday, I want to study the effect of Never-Seeze on torque.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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| I'm glad you guys could appreciate my dry sense of humor. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I'm glad you guys could appreciate my dry sense of humor. |
Andrew, your humor and sig line are appreciated very much! |
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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i have 3 snap-on torque wrenches, 2 click type, and a torquometer.
to be honest the click type are crap now that they are old, the lock rings that hold the desired torque move as soon as you lay them down, then the wrench does not find a torque, unfortunately for me, being mobile it can take me weeks to find a stopped snap-on man 
_________________
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lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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hans j
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2715
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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Precision Instruments makes some of Snap-On's wrenches. The older split beam snappy wrenches have a reverse on them though which is pretty nice.
I have one of each brand plus a snappy TechAngle. It gets more use now than my 3/8 PI split beam, plus the techangle has a torque angle gauge.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| vanagonjr wrote: |
| ... Someday, I want to study the effect of Never-Seeze on torque. |
That's a very interesting subject for study and there are varying opinions about its use. I've always used anti-seize on spark plug threads, lug bolts and lug nuts. In general any fastener that may be repeatedly be unfastened and refastened.
For spark plugs I see no problem because those are tightened to a compression washer and that determines the torque applied. Or, to be correct, aren't spark plugs installed by the amount of turn past seating on the compression washer? But for the wheels, isn't friction a part of the security of the bolt or nut? I'm aware that the conical portion should not have any friction reducing material, but I like the idea of clean and anti-seized threads to prevent damage to the threads from repeated use. And what about CV joint bolts? I've sometimes had to use a two foot cheater bar to loosen those. What was the torque value when they were installed? Hopefully far less than the torque required to unfasten them.
I assume that in modern, dry assembly, manufacturing the lack of lubrication and stretch are a part of the fasteners design to prevent loosening.
I assume that the use of ant-sieze would allow more torque to be applied and might result in more than designed stress and stretch in the fastener and threads.
What about the results of using anti-sieze on self-locking threads with an interference fit?
What are the results of anti-sieze used on an early bay window rear hub nut which requires a minimum 360 ft-lb of torque and is then further tightened to castellation alignment? I've used a slug wrench, BFH and/or standing and jumping on a six foot cheater bar to loosen those (1200 ft-lbs+).
Aloha
tp |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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Loctite says their thread-lockers do not affect torque, and neither do some anti-sieze compounds, according to Optimolloy.
Torque values are usually given 'dry' as the fastener comes from the manf. BUT such fasteners typically have a light coat of oil on them.
I suggest contacting the manf.s involved if in doubt.
For those not ready for a MS in Mech. Eng., Carrol Smiths book is useful. I forget the real title but it is usually called Screw to Win. |
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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| Merian wrote: |
| For those not ready for a MS in Mech. Eng., Carrol Smiths book is useful. I forget the real title but it is usually called Screw to Win. |
Wiki Article
_________________
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When All Else Fails: Lather, Rinse, Repeat! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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| Merian wrote: |
Loctite says their thread-lockers do not affect torque, and neither do some anti-sieze compounds, according to Optimolloy.
Torque values are usually given 'dry' as the fastener comes from the manf. BUT such fasteners typically have a light coat of oil on them.
I suggest contacting the manf.s involved if in doubt.
For those not ready for a MS in Mech. Eng., Carrol Smiths book is useful. I forget the real title but it is usually called Screw to Win. |
I think I took that seminar in Vegas
Lube can easily reduce tightening torque ( at constant tension) 30-50 percent. Lug nuts are a place where this rears its head most often with attendant long Internet threads of dubious content
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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| thx for that addition team, I had no idea there was a wiki on him |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing a Torque Wrench |
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OMG... I just noticed that the torque wrench that I ordered doesn't go down low enough to torque some of the stuff I will need to torque like the valve cover bolts.
Do most of you guys have a separate small torque wrench for the super low torques - or how do you deal with them?
Seems I should buy one of these also:
http://eshop.svetluska.cz/momentovy-klic-1-4-2-24nm-v-pouzdre
Thanks
Ed
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