vintagebusimport [email protected] Laurent Piani

[StefansBus]

I bought a "restored" 69 Westy from Laurent Piani (the French owner of Vintage Bus Import in Los Angeles, CA) after having found his ad here on TheSamba.

Here and on his website http://www.vintagebusimport.com/complete-restoration-1969-walk-thru-so67-westfalia-bay-window/ was a detailed description including many pictures. I paid full asking price (25k) and when the bus arrived here in Germany the reality looked very different from the pictures and description (and what was agreed in the contract). The bus was unsafe to drive and the condition not as described. I can back up everything I say with expert witnesses and pictures.

Laurent has refused to take the bus back.

Laurent has threatened by email to take me to court should I publish my story.

Well, I did. Here it is, including pics:

http://stefansbus.de

To be sure: I did not expect a perfect bus or a high end restoration but i expected it to be safe to drive, in good working order and mostly rust free.

Aircooled greetings from Germany

[vintagebusimport]

Hi folks!

This guy bought us the 69 westfalia vw bus.
What he is saying or talking about it absolutely wrong and full of lies. He has been manipulated by people in Germany. We have a lot of customers and 100% of them are satisfied.
Read the story of the man who's going to spend 60000euros in a t2a...he does not know what he is doing and again talking about, liar and more!

[StefansBus]

Laurent,

If you are going to call me a liar you had better back that up with proof. There is not a single untrue statement in my original post or on my website.

I believe your post does not comply with the rules of this forum and have reported it to the site administrator.

Stefan

[skills@eurocarsplus]

here is his thread in the bay forum

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642670

I have to say, your metal work was poor at best. leaving holes etc in the rockers is pretty bad....

again, not knowing both sides, I would say for what it was, it was an "ok" bus, however some of that work was 100% back yard. it was more like a 15k bus in that condition....useable, but FAR from perfect, and even farther from "restored"

as I commented in that thread, TUV is tough, a lot of the shoddy work would have been deemed "ok" here in the states.

I have been involved in jobs where the customer didn't want to go "all the way" but that is the customers choice...selling that as restored is pretty shady...
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[StefansBus]

Hi skills,

Thanks for your support. I had already written a response to you and "Amskeptic" on the bay from but the thread was locked (understandably) before I could post it.

I understand that one guy's idea of "restoring" may differ from another guy's but having a partial brake failure on the Autobahn on the first drive due to incorrect installation of the brake line between the two front right wheel brake cylinders and resulting brake fluid loss is unsafe an not acceptable. And that was just one of many safety issues.

It's good to see that there are people out there who take pride in their job AND know what they are doing and talking about.

I never expected to buy a 45k bus for 25k but I did not expect the shocking workmanship I discovered when I inspected the bus with the help of independent experts (master mechanics) here in Germany. By the way, they have all told me they are happy to confirm my statements.

Stefan

[Joey]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

got to love the speaker wire zip tied to the brake line should have added another 10 months to that "resto"
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[vintagebusimport]

Hi There,

Im Laurent, owner of vintagebusimport in Los Angeles. Its with the biggest regrets that we discovered all the problems that our customer stefan from germany has brought to you followed by the fact that he has now the intention to catch the attention of all of you, worldwide.

I'm extremely disappointed by the fact that most of you have been caught in this story and unfortunately none of you know the truth which could be extremely interesting to read before throwing stones on our reputable company.

We've probably been misrepresented by a contractor and a body shop but we are not liars, cheaters and more important we respect our customers.

It is kind of late but i'll make sure that i will provide you with all the pictures and proofs that we are honest. I will bring in this forum all the evidence and proofs of his complete lack of knowledge but also the fact that he has been manipulated by businesses in germany trying to take advantage of him.

Just to give you a quick sample, you will find a picture of the brakes correctly installed. (This is just an example ). Yes our contractor has probably forgot a spacer and a washer or other things and we agreed on and on which we are unfortunately responsible but i can assure you that all this story is a complete manipulation.

This will let think about the honesty of this whole story. Therefore YOU guys are the judge.

Hope this will help before the entire post tomorrow. We also would be glad if some of you would consider other considerations than: DIY GUYS, BACK YARD WORK and more knowing that the truth is coming to you.

Laurent / Vintagebusimport LLC

[StefansBus]

Laurent,

when will you accept responsibility for the bus you sold me? Ok, you got a pic of the brake line correctly installed in one place. However, the pic I posted is NOT from that place. Have a look and compare. My pic shows the right rear top connection between the brake line (coming from the line and connecting to the hose) and yours shows the connection downstream, connecting the hose to the line....

Besides, you will have to post many more pics to prove that the bus was in good condition when it left your shop. Got pictures of the underside of the bus before you sprayed it with the black stuff all over? Didn't think so

Got pics of the brake line in the front drum correctly installed? The sway bar?

You know, it may be that it was not you yourself who performed the shoddy work. But as the owner of your company and the one who sold me the vehicle you are responsible. I don't care if it was your contractor or your body shop who screwed up. I have told you this by email and given you the chance to make it right. In one of your emails you told me you wanted to take your ex employee to court because you were convinced he was responsible. In your last email to me you threatened to take me to court. How about you just do the right thing for once and accept responsibility for the work your shop sold as "complete restoration".

By the way, here is a pic, from YOUR website, showing the incorrect and unsafe installation of the front brake line that lead to the brake failure:

And here another one from YOUR website where you proudly show off the sway bar installed upside down. Maybe I am expecting too much

The idea that I am somehow being manipulated by mechanics here in Germany is pretty absurd. I am a certified (BMW) mechanic myself (three years of training here in Germany before I changed careers) and have been working on my own air-cooled vehicles (beetles) for longer than I had my drivers license. Today I don't have to time or space to work on the bus myself so will have to get the work done. Besides, I am not qualified in bodywork. But I do weld better than what I have seen on that bus...Anyway, I'm not that easily mislead or manipulated. Not by you and not by any mechanic here in Germany either.

I am not gonna bore everyone here with all the details. What it comes down to is this:

The car was unsafe to drive when it got here.

The car's body/chassis was in a condition very far from what could be described as a "complete restoration" and "the cleanest bus on the market".

Go on, prove me wrong and let everyone here know "the truth"

[rsbadura]

I see only a lot off incompetence...

The car is dangerous assembled in multiple points - e.g. take a look at the front axle sway bar, the brake system, the shock screws, ... looks not like a car mechanic work.

The simple selling paint may depend to the low price - I do not want to discuss.

In Germany it would take $15000-25000 to make a good (not perfect) car of this actual disaster condition... Nothing that will expected by customer after the presented selling pictures and description...


But also a typical greenhorn story in Germany - Stefan is not the only one, that think all is rust free and cheap and top in the US... so, be careful...
_________________
Rolf-Stephan Badura
1970 VW Karmann-Ghia Coupe
1979 VW Bus L to camper conversion
1982 Eriba Pan travel trailer
2017 VW CrossPolo
HAZET classic tools

[StefansBus]

Thanks for the support rsbadura

I don't mind the cheap paint job so much. As you say, at that price point I cannot expect a high end top dollar paint job.

I am also not so naive to think that everything coming from the U.S. is rust free and quality. But the pictures did look pretty good initially. Unfortunately, it was only after I started to discover the many problems, that I looked close enough at the pictures to see that indeed this was not the work of an expert, to put it nicely.

The scary thing is: I am a bus greenhorn but not a greenhorn when it comes to cars in general or even air-cooled VWs. I have owned many and worked on them myself. But I still made the mistake of buying that bus....

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[Joey]

As mentioned above, vintagebusimport should of inspected the work if the work was done by an outsourced contractor before putting the bus up for sale.

Every inch of that bus needs to be gone over before even driving it around the block.

vintagebusimport, please give us the name of the business that did the work so the VW community can avoid doing business with them too...
_________________
Joey

‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle

[StefansBus]

Laurent

Weren't you going to post a lot of evidence and proof yesterday?

Why so quiet? As has been suggested, maybe it's not too late to try to save your and your company's reputation by admitting that you dropped the ball and by refunding me a significant part of the purchase price.

In the meantime, when people google your company and/or your name, there will be plenty of warning for prospective customers on this site, mine, a UK based forum, a forum in Germany, yelp... you get the idea. And you only have yourself to blame.

By the way, how come that in your previous post you state that you have probably been "misrepresented" by a "contractor" (in your email to me you wrote it was a former employee) but at the same time you say my story is "complete manipulation". Which one is it now?

You also called me a liar and more. Care to elaborate?

You wrote I don't know what I am doing and talking about. Looking at the "workmanship" on the bus you sold me it appears it is you who is clueless. Interestingly, everyone else on here (and all the other forums) seems to agree with me.

Obviously your first attempt at trying to "prove" me wrong was a FAIL. Try again if you like, or, if you have half a brain and are man enough, own up and admit that you owe me a refund. And don't even think about offering me a thousand bucks....

[vintagebusimport]

Stefan,

Thank you for your last message and sorry for answering that late because of the week end.

I agree with most of the comments here saying that i should have verified everything and there was no excuse for this ( Sway bar upside down...). There was indeed my job, my ex employee( Was a contractor for this job), wood panel installer and the bodyshop. This was a first try and it was a mistake. Keep in mind again that i do not not misjudge you. You can be angry but telling me that I have a half brain is not gonna make you feel better ( Check your own notes attached to this post). When you were talking about sensors on the engine I've never heard about and willing to spend a total of 60000Euros on a T2A because you tell me that the value is increasing year after year?? Yes but not on these bay windows and certainly not 60000Euros total. Never heard about someone with the same intentions unless for a 21 windows...Looks "crazy" ( see your emails attached about that)

We would have been glad helping you to fix these issues which are not suppose to occur but i think you were expecting a vw bus of $25000 as nice as a $50000. I do not want to misjudge you and some of the members writing comments here because it looks like we don't know each other and you think that publishing your story will destroy our company. Please keep in mind that a terrible story like this one never happened in the past and we can ask signed testimonials to each of our customers. 100% satisfaction.

Let' s talk about the frame...We did not weld any pieces on the frame. The frame was the same way when we bought it and sorry if it was not complying with your german expectations but its not in bad condition I'm sorry.. YES I welded the rear left and right corners ( As well as the battery tray) and these are correctly welded. YES I wire brushed it, Sprayed a rust remover( Sorry if it does not remove everything everywhere) and sprayed it with undercoating. When you asked me the question, I've answered you ( Please see all the attached pieces of email). You are showing the pictures of the frame sand blasted. I can say its not perfect but its not bad. There was only surface rust on this frame. If you look at the pictures attached I'm sorry but this is a solid frame.

I agree on certain things with you but now the engine rings are upside down...BLODGETT has built this longblock engine and i doubt that people overthere ( And i know a few) did that mistake...possible after all right?


We unfortunately cannot do better than what we already offered you. Again we feel sorry for this critical mechanical problems that we would be glad to help.



Laurent / VBI

[skills@eurocarsplus]

well, I hope you 2 can work out a solution.

if you welded the rocker, you need to go back to school. don't take it the wrong way, but this is insane for a shop to sell as "restored"

I 100% get using a lower quality paint, cheap door seals etc for a "budget" resto, but the bones should be good.....your eye for detail needs a visit to the ophthalmologist
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[vintagebusimport]

For your information:

[StefansBus]

Lauernt

Again, your pictures don't prove anything. They are the same that are already on your website.

I never said that you did the terrible weldings. But you left them the way they were. You also left the rust holes and did not repair them.

To say that there was only surface rust on the frame has got to be a bad joke. By the way, the pictures I posted were after cleaning with dry ice. NOT sandblasting. So if you had cleaned the frame properly you would have seen the same.

My intention is not to destroy your company. It's to share my story so that others don't make the same mistake I did. If that results in a bad reputation for your business then you only have yourself to blame.

Did you take your "contractor" to court, finally?

Why are you so obsessed with the money I am prepared to spend on such a bus? That's absolutely none of your business. Many enthusiast spend a lot more on their vehicles than they are worth. Following your logic no T2 should be treated to a proper restoration. I want to use the bus as a camper, a T1 is less suited for that then a T2, which is the more modern vehicle. I want it to be reliable, safe, look good AND last. It's for all those reasons that I am prepared to spend what it takes on the bus. Since I am not planning on selling it anytime soon, it doesn't matter whether my investment will be worth it in terms of value of the car. And in the long term, I am pretty sure it will. Exceptional T2s are already 40-50k Euros here in Germany today.

You brought up the piston rings on here. I did not. The engine has been leaking quite a bit of oil on my garage floor AND it has been burning oil (blue exhaust smoke). I asked the shop that deals with the bus now to investigate. They disassembled the engine and shortly thereafter sent me an email to say all piston rings were installed upside down (which of course explains the oil being burned). I have the email, in German, and could post that here but I think the rest of the things that are wrong with the bus speak for themselves. Hey, I am sure it was a respectable company who built the motor but mistakes do happen. If that had been the only one, it wouldn't have been a problem. But here I want to focus on all the things YOU and YOUR company screwed up.

Have I even mentioned that heater cables were not hooked up, the fuel gauge was inoperative, the reverse lights did not work because the contact on the tranny switch was painted? Oh, the swivel pin kit for the steering was incomplete, resulting in steering play.

There was just sooo much wrong with the bus, it's crazy. I am sure I haven't mentioned everything yet. I will post some pictures of the inside of the bus after I removed the interior. Again, lot's of "quality" work right there.

It's sad that you say you "can't" do better then what you have already offered (thousand bucks) because what you really mean is that you don't want to to better. Which is a shame because it proves that you don't really car about your customers and their satisfaction, contrary to what you say.

How many "full restorations" have you done and sold? The scary thing is that somewhere you wrote that mine was "the best bus ever restored by vintage bus import".....

all the drill holes for the screws that hold the wood panels in place look the same.

pic speaks for itself

that's what the floor looked like after I removed the interior. This is just a few months after a "full restoration" by Laurent and the bus hasn't even been used once by me other then getting it home...

The paint on the floor is lifting. I guess it hasn't been cleaned from grease and oil properly.

[campingbox]

I have a few questions:

Did you inspect the bus and look at it in person when you bought it or did you buy it sight unseen and then shipped it back to Germany?

Did you ask Laurent to take the bus back before you tore it apart, or only after?

[StefansBus]

I bought it sight unseen and that was a mistake. But at the same time the description was incorrect and the pictures misleading.

I asked him to take the bus back before starting to tear it apart. At the time the interior was still in, the engine still installed and the underside hadn't been dry-ice-blasted.

But already at that stage it was apparent that there were so many things wrong with the bus that it wont be quick nor cheap to make it right. That's what I told him within weeks of the bus arriving here but he refused to take the bus back. I would have paid for shipping.

He still claims the problems are only minor and only worth a thousand bucks. I will not accept that and also won't accept the thousand dollars as I consider that an insult.