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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4561 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Hey Lind! Did "mightymouse" ever pay off with a beer at the Red Barn event?
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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cdennisg wrote: |
They don't put a model year on the birth cert. because it was not an established thing at the time of production. Model year was based loosely on production dates versus delivery dates. Somewhere in the mid 60's (I'm sure it's buried in this thread somewhere) they started calling the start of model year August 1st. That is common practice today. |
x2
It is pretty clear that VW used the model year by the time they put it in the VIN of the 1965 models.
I think European and British samba members refer to their buses by calendar year. I've seen threads where the owner called a big hatch bus called a 63, which seemed odd to me.
Turned out it was buildt Nov 63 so I can see it being called a 63 if that is how they do it.
It's one of those things where people use the same word in different ways. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Since I make interior panels, I look at fitting panels to buses.
For interior panels, and replacing many parts, it makes sense for the 55 model year to start in 3/55. There was a huge re-design of the VW bus then.
Though it is strange to call a Feb 55 bus a 54, and people generally don't.
It seems like that document retroactively defined the 1955 model year start as 3/55 to make it easier for the parts department.
The same interior panel shape was used 3/55 through early in 1960, so in one way I look at that as one long ' late fifties model year'. A 56 SC used the same set as a 9/59 SC.
easy
But if you have a 60- 64 buildt bus it can seem... messy.
There were fusebox changes, and various other changes, most not at 'model year' changes. They weren't at calendar year changes either.
One of the changes was intermittent, and for about 60,000 buses it could be either way. For that we can't tell by the VIN, you have to look at the bus.
Since I am unsure of how exact the recorded VINs are for changes (often a few hundred off between parts list and PR, which is a different discussion) if a bus was close to a change, I ask which version it is, just to be on the safe side.
If someone wants interior panels for a 64 SC, I have to find out which version they want. Which door panels? Which heater outlet?
Calling it a 64 is not as useful as calling it a November 63.
If someone wants an interior for a November 63 SC, I know what fits.
It makes it easy for the Parts department. VW said to use the VIN when ordering parts, probably because model year was not as useful.
For the April 61 through July 64 buses, microbuses were available with como green or basalt interior. 2 choices, right? Wrong.
The shape of the panels changed many times.
IIRC, there were at least 7 (seven) changes in panel sets for that time, plus color choices, ( plus options like w/t, double doors both sides, sliding door.)
Two (2) of the changes were at model year change: the bulkhead change, and the change from small to big hatch.
In May 64 the shape had settled down and they kept it the same through 67 model year.
So I could see it as
* one model year for late fifties
* ~ten (+) model years for '60 through mid '64, and
* one model year for mid sixties. (May 64 through 67)
Does 'model year' matter? Is it even useful? _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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CaLiBus Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2011 Posts: 1097
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: This was informational |
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Sh*tBird wrote: |
Why doesn't VW put the model year on the birth certificates?
They have everything else on it.
I found this thread right before I was going to start one, "Build Year vs. Model Year". I noticed the topic mentioned in other threads and some debate. I wanted a definitive answer (that my Oct '55 is a '55 - as that sounds cool!)
Thank to all for doing the research. |
And to stir the pot and release the cracken in 2015 ... you got a 55 bus |
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VWLooseNuts Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007 Posts: 668 Location: PNW.
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
Lind wrote: |
mightymouse wrote: |
So if a bus like mine sat around on the dealer floor for 6 months, and then was driven into dmv in 58, it would be reg'd as a 58. |
if it sat on the floor for a year and was sold as a '59, would you call it a '59? |
My ex-'63 Notchback was built in 1962 and bought in Germany in 1964 as a floor model. It was registered as a 1963 model from new.
I bought it from the original owner and the bought as a floor demo model was straight from his mouth.
I'm not sure if the person above is trying to say that OR used to title all cars by the engine number? I would disagree with that.
My Double Cab has been in Oregon since 1964 (at least, probably from new) and the title from that period was by the VIN #. It's also built in 8/60 and titled as a '61. |
not to bring back an old thread. but..
I am reading through this to try and learn something different/new but this post caught my eye. My original Oregon 55 SC was registered off the motor number and NOT the VIN number in 1955. title number/motor number same. which the motor/title number and the VIN number are both of July 1955 this did happen a lot in Oregon. I'm guess the "lot boy" was told to go get the number for me for the title paper work, it should start with a "20- something number". "lot boy" saw the first 20- something number copied it down and ran back in. probably to lazy to look around the motor to read the number stamped on the body. or part of it was covered my the engine seal saw that both the motor and vin started with a 20 number and figured the number where the same. "as they probably should have been but we know they are not" that's my guess. I have heard this claim many times here in Oregon. but I personally know for fact that Oregon did title off the motor number and not the vin. I am in process of correcting this on my July built 55 Single cab as we speak, _________________ Jeremy
www.vwloosenuts.com
www.facebook.com/VWLoosenuts |
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thom Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000 Posts: 5943 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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VWLooseNuts wrote: |
I'm guess the "lot boy" was told to go get the number for me for the title paper work, it should start with a "20- something number". "lot boy" saw the first 20- something number copied it down and ran back in. |
My 1960 panel was originally registered with the M-codes as the VIN; that was a fun one to get sorted out @ DMV. _________________ -Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20233 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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thom wrote: |
VWLooseNuts wrote: |
I'm guess the "lot boy" was told to go get the number for me for the title paper work, it should start with a "20- something number". "lot boy" saw the first 20- something number copied it down and ran back in. |
My 1960 panel was originally registered with the M-codes as the VIN; that was a fun one to get sorted out @ DMV. |
I bought a 60 single cab in OR that was titled in 61, as a 61, to the 60 engine #. I had the original title from the original owner. It took some time, but I was able to get the OR DMV to put the correct date and VIN # on my title. Also, I asked for and was given the original title as a souvenir. It was stamped VOID and SOUVENIR as I recall. _________________ nothing |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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My old '54 Single Cab from CA was titled to the engine #.
But the previous owner sold the original engine before I bought it.
I have heard it was very common for California to title cars by the engine number around that time.
It was easy to fix. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4561 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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My '55 Sunroof Beetle was originally titled in California when first sold, and yes, they used the motor serial number instead of the chassis number. Stupid 1950's California DMV! Anyway, when I bought it in 1993 and brought it back to Missouri, I had to make an appointment with the Missouri Highway Patrol vehicle inspector to inspect and verify on a DMV form the VIN chassis number, and then it was easy to get the new Missouri title corrected to use the chassis number. All is well now in "paperwork land". Most States should have the same or a similar process.
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14218 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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BulliBill wrote: |
Stupid 1950's California DMV! |
It was that way from early on. It was to discourage theft. Engines usually stayed with the car they came in. If the serial number was messed up they would call the cops. Sometimes they'd x-ray to see if there were deeper older numbers in the compressed steel. Most blocks weren't magnesium like VW. |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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From a 1964 Salesman's manual. The chassis numbers are for beetle, but it clearly states when the model year starts, which is on August 1st starting in 1955 for the '56 model year.
_________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20233 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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Well, that pretty much settles the debate right there. _________________ nothing |
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earlywesty Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004 Posts: 2356 Location: In the woods, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:14 am Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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1955 has long been my favourite year of VW production. So much change going on across the lineup. Even cooler its a short year! |
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