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Love My Westy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

carvellt wrote:
Hey all! Just about to get new springs, wheels and tires. Wondering if anyone has tried the vancafe springs with bfg all terrains 215 75 r15. Wondering if there would be any clearance issues? Debating on whether to go with the GW 1.5 inch lift springs or the vancafe springs with Bilstein's.


I have the 215 75 r15 BFG KO's on my '86 weekender with the Van Cafe springs
and Koni shocks. They are not lift springs and I noticed contact with the fender flares when turning while going through dips at the same time. Also at Synchro Solstice I found them to rub when going up over sandstone ledges while trying to maintain speed on hills. It just slightly pushed out my fender flares, one of which has a crack in the paint.

I solved the problem by adding spacers I made from a polyethylene cutting board that fit inside the shocks to effectively act as jounce stops. I think I added three 5/16" spacers to each side. My Koni Shocks are set midway on their adjustment. It all seems to work well now and I have been up some of the same trails in Moab where they originally were rubbing.
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Jeroen_M625
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Strange, or very extreme conditions, some 14" syncro's over here have the same 15" BFG, but never heard of them rubbing. The 15" Toyo's I have on my 2wd, have the same diameter and keep just clear of the Westfalia mudflaps (with standard springs). Perhaps the ET is different. We use ET31 steelies.
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VolkswagenT25.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

I have 215/75/15's with the GW rise springs but I was definitely getting a lot of rubbing when on the standard springs with the larger tyres.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Love My Westy wrote:


I have the 215 75 r15 BFG KO's on my '86 weekender with the Van Cafe springs
and Koni shocks. They are not lift springs and I noticed contact with the fender flares when turning while going through dips at the same time. Also at Synchro Solstice I found them to rub when going up over sandstone ledges while trying to maintain speed on hills. It just slightly pushed out my fender flares, one of which has a crack in the paint.


Jeroen_M625 wrote:

Strange, or very extreme conditions, some 14" syncro's over here have the same 15" BFG, but never heard of them rubbing. The 15" Toyo's I have on my 2wd, have the same diameter and keep just clear of the Westfalia mudflaps (with standard springs). Perhaps the ET is different. We use ET31 steelies.


The difference is that the Syncro has a narrower front track width and a higher ride height compared to Love my Westy's 2wd. Wheel offset definitely plays a roll in tire clearance though.
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Jeroen_M625
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Ride height is not a factor since it happens when spring is compressed, but end stop is. It is indeed 8mm per side narrower. If we assume that the axis on wich the wheel bearing housing turns (line trough upper and lower ball joint) has not, then swing is decreased, if that axis has also moved 8mm then swing stays the same but only 8mm towards center of car. (pics would made this so much easier).

Also I can imagen that the flex of the construction is a factor. wehen braking or hitting a large obstacle weheel gets pushed backwards more when rubber mounts in the suspension are softer. One ot the mods for 235/85/r16 wheels is to adjust the alignment (turn de nuts on the track control arm) so wheels are 'pulled' a bit to the front.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Jeroen_M625 wrote:
Ride height is not a factor since it happens when spring is compressed, but end stop is.


If you are comparing a 2wd to another 2wd, this could be true if all factors are equal. However, with the suspensions being different on the 2wd compared to a Syncro and the shock and "end stop" being different as well, it is very difficult to compare a 2wd wheel/tire fitment to the same on a Syncro. Suspension design, spring rate, shock valving, bump stop (end stop) differences, etc. all play a part in whether a tire will make contact with the upper fender lip (or any other body location) in a specific condition. You have to compare apples to apples in order to get an accurate assessment of the situation.
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Jeroen_M625
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Very true, on one of the the syncro's I have compressed the spring once so It was easier to simulate extreme conditions and tried different spacers and wheels to see what was possible for me. For a syncro it is quite easy: a 14" can have original 16" wheels (205R16 ET 33*) without rubbing (keep in mind that 16" was also desinged to use snow chains, so enough clearance**), so anything smaller must be no problem.
On 2WD I have 225/70 A/T same diameter as the 215/75 A/T BFG. With ET31 they just clear the westfalia mudflaps (like the combo Ezee has), even without lift. Those mudflaps actually protrude a bit insde (therefor larger tyres will not fit). If you turn (full lock) then top of inner wheel is underneath the edge of the fender. At large compression it is indeed plausible that they colide, but that is also with original 16" with original wheels. That makes me curious under what conditions that will happen (since normally outer wheel takes most force at offroading).

*ET18 should also fit since track of 16" is 1597 vs 1568.
**therefor aft of fender was cut a bit at 16".

FI: Have 235/70R16 Toyo A/T with terrawagen fenders on a 14" without rubbing. 30,5x9.5 BFG M/T on ET27 did only rub the rear part of the fender on a 14" so bending it a bit out was solution.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
Jeroen_M625 wrote:
Ride height is not a factor since it happens when spring is compressed, but end stop is.


If you are comparing a 2wd to another 2wd, this could be true if all factors are equal. However, with the suspensions being different on the 2wd compared to a Syncro and the shock and "end stop" being different as well, it is very difficult to compare a 2wd wheel/tire fitment to the same on a Syncro. Suspension design, spring rate, shock valving, bump stop (end stop) differences, etc. all play a part in whether a tire will make contact with the upper fender lip (or any other body location) in a specific condition. You have to compare apples to apples in order to get an accurate assessment of the situation.


Hey Chris, happy new year to you!

I have a question for you, I was looking yesterday at the Syncro, it has cut corners for the battery boxes on the front wheel wells.

Do the stock wheels ever get close to that corner?

I'm about to convert the 2WD into a Syncro, I have spacers you custom made for me to mount 16x6.5 wheels to obtain a near perfect factory offset.

I'm wondering if I can avoid cutting and welding these battery box corners on the 2WD-Syncro converted van Confused

Aloha!
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Christopher Schimke wrote:
Jeroen_M625 wrote:
Ride height is not a factor since it happens when spring is compressed, but end stop is.


If you are comparing a 2wd to another 2wd, this could be true if all factors are equal. However, with the suspensions being different on the 2wd compared to a Syncro and the shock and "end stop" being different as well, it is very difficult to compare a 2wd wheel/tire fitment to the same on a Syncro. Suspension design, spring rate, shock valving, bump stop (end stop) differences, etc. all play a part in whether a tire will make contact with the upper fender lip (or any other body location) in a specific condition. You have to compare apples to apples in order to get an accurate assessment of the situation.


Hey Chris, happy new year to you!

I have a question for you, I was looking yesterday at the Syncro, it has cut corners for the battery boxes on the front wheel wells.

Do the stock wheels ever get close to that corner?

I'm about to convert the 2WD into a Syncro, I have spacers you custom made for me to mount 16x6.5 wheels to obtain a near perfect factory offset.

I'm wondering if I can avoid cutting and welding these battery box corners on the 2WD-Syncro converted van Confused

Aloha!


Happy New Year to you too, buddy!

I have never personally tested whether or not the stock wheels/tires on a Syncro get close to the battery box corners or not, but since all Syncros have it, I can't imagine VW would have approved that small change for the Syncros had it not been deemed necessary.

Looking at it logically, the power steering 2wd and power steering Syncro both have the same advertised turning radius. The wheel and tire specs were the same (including optional wheels/tires) for the 2wd and the 14" Syncro. So that leaves the only difference being the suspension design. Not only is the Syncro front track width narrower than the 2wd (pulling the tire inward closer to the battery box), it also has more travel. It seems only logical that one of those two factors, or more likely a combination of both, are what prompted VW to lob the corners off the battery box.

If it were my Syncro conversion, I would probably take the time to make the change. Then again, that is the type of modification that could be made at any time if you deemed it necessary later.
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junichi
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:37 am    Post subject: More doka Reply with quote

sub-hatchtim wrote:
Here you go

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Specs on this bad boy? What springs? What height?
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WestleyTheWesty
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

1990 Westy with stock springs, Bilstein HD shocks, 215/75r15 BFG T/A KO3 tires, GoWesty 15" rims. I had to emergency brake one time, full force on the brakes, with rain and lots of water on the road and these tires did not slide, skip or hydroplane at all... I was extremely impressed (and thankful) with the performance. We take him up logging roads for hikes and have never had an issue. These rims and tires feel like the perfect size.

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I do get a bit of rubbing with hard braking, while turning and hitting a curb or bump. Would lift springs help this out?
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Team WorldTour Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: More doka Reply with quote

junichi wrote:
sub-hatchtim wrote:
Here you go

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Specs on this bad boy? What springs? What height?



AAAAHHHH!!!!!!
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!
The last time I saw this beast, I left it dead on the side of the Autobahn!
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

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My 1987 Westy
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snwbrdr435
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Think I am starting to fit this thread.

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Jeroen_M625
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Christopher Schimke wrote:
Jeroen_M625 wrote:
Ride height is not a factor since it happens when spring is compressed, but end stop is.


If you are comparing a 2wd to another 2wd, this could be true if all factors are equal. However, with the suspensions being different on the 2wd compared to a Syncro and the shock and "end stop" being different as well, it is very difficult to compare a 2wd wheel/tire fitment to the same on a Syncro. Suspension design, spring rate, shock valving, bump stop (end stop) differences, etc. all play a part in whether a tire will make contact with the upper fender lip (or any other body location) in a specific condition. You have to compare apples to apples in order to get an accurate assessment of the situation.


Hey Chris, happy new year to you!

I have a question for you, I was looking yesterday at the Syncro, it has cut corners for the battery boxes on the front wheel wells.

Do the stock wheels ever get close to that corner?

I'm about to convert the 2WD into a Syncro, I have spacers you custom made for me to mount 16x6.5 wheels to obtain a near perfect factory offset.

I'm wondering if I can avoid cutting and welding these battery box corners on the 2WD-Syncro converted van Confused

Aloha!


Happy New Year to you too, buddy!

I have never personally tested whether or not the stock wheels/tires on a Syncro get close to the battery box corners or not, but since all Syncros have it, I can't imagine VW would have approved that small change for the Syncros had it not been deemed necessary.

Looking at it logically, the power steering 2wd and power steering Syncro both have the same advertised turning radius. The wheel and tire specs were the same (including optional wheels/tires) for the 2wd and the 14" Syncro. So that leaves the only difference being the suspension design. Not only is the Syncro front track width narrower than the 2wd (pulling the tire inward closer to the battery box), it also has more travel. It seems only logical that one of those two factors, or more likely a combination of both, are what prompted VW to lob the corners off the battery box.

If it were my Syncro conversion, I would probably take the time to make the change. Then again, that is the type of modification that could be made at any time if you deemed it necessary later.


I changed it back at the right side to fit a 80Ah battery. I drive with original 16" wheels, but never snow chains, so there is a margin.
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VolkswagenT25.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

Still riding high in our UK raised 2WD Westy...

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Toying with changing shocks but can't afford the Fox shocks right now.
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

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jacob.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

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GoWesty 1.5" lift springs, monroe gas shocks, 30.5 inch tires on 17" rims with spacers all around (not sure about the front, haven't gotten in there, but definitely on the rear.) Ground clearance is pretty good, handling is surprisingly good, no rubbing anywhere. Engines out for a subaru 2.5 liter swap. Should be in next week. I'll take some better pictures as soon as it can move from this spot in my driveway.
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tjet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

I like how you van looks with those tires... Cool

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I want to go with bigger tires once I get my TDI in.

Presently, I'm running 235/70R15's A/T's. 28" is tall enough for a stock 2.1 wbx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Prerunner vans Reply with quote

tjet wrote:
I like how you van looks with those tires... Cool

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I want to go with bigger tires once I get my TDI in.

Presently, I'm running 235/70R15's A/T's. 28" is tall enough for a stock 2.1 wbx


Thanks! I really dig the look too. I just went outside and checked. They're 245/70/17 on 17" tuner wheels. The pinch welds needed ground down on the rear trailing arms. Guess why i'm upgrading the engine? That 1.9 was running great but still could not turn these tires AT ALL.
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