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HackAl
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2016
Posts: 338
Location: Bergen County, NJ
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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Advice sought: 91 Westy (update: bought it!) |
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Hi Everyone. My first post. Please tell me if I'm in the wrong place.
I have an opportunity to purchase a "very good" condition 91 Westy Camper with 149k miles, "rebuilt" engine, trans. Asking price: $23k. Seller represents top notch.
Looking at it this weekend. At first sight, what should I look for, listen for, smell for? I'm not a mechanic but will ask that a mechanic inspect. Not sure he'll even know. I can look for rust, check rotors, look for obviously leaks. Are there any other "symptoms" or features I can readily check?
The owner seems like a straight-shooter but I'm simply not knowledgeable enough to spot what might seem like obvious issues to the trained-eye.
This won't be my daily driver. Weekend excursions, occasional camping. Just trying to avoid a headache though I know I'm in for some issues (whatever they may be).
Thanks in advance for any good advice. |
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campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4492
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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Begin here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568164
Plenty of info in the FAQ, where the above link is one small part, so good luck with your inspection and your new van!
_________________
'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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Welcome to the site!
About to jump in with both feet eh?
It would help us a lot to know where you are. A Van from Arizona or New Mexico will most likely be a different check list than one from Vermont or Maine.
(Ooops  just saw the Zip Code)
(Feel free to contact me about any questions, I'm West of you in Jersey. PM me, I'll send you my text number if that will help at all. )
Why?
These units are prone to rust.
The rust can be fixed but it's a lot of work and an expensive undertaking.
The unit you mention is at the upper end or "average" pricing norms. To garner that kind of cash this unit must be almost flawless with a solid paper trail of repairs and maintenence to warrant the price.
If it isn't flawless it must have a long list of quality upgrades, modern engine, rebuilt transmission, awnings, roof racks, bumpers etc.
Shop wisely! Do NOT fall in love with a unit until you have discerned it's integrity.
Remember that rust never sleeps so be extra vigilant looking in the rust prone areas, door step (under pad), outboard seat belt bolts, behind the sliding door near the trailing arm shackle, left side behind the kitchen area, any body seam, around all the windows.
If the paint is new, be very very cautious, new paint can hide a multitude of serious flaws beautifully.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7757
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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Welcome to Samba! You're already off to great start by joining this community!
Some Q's for you and the seller:
- Manual or auto trans? (just for our reference)
- Who did the rebuilds and what did they cost?
A few rebuilders (Vanistan/tencentlife/Chris Corkins, GoWesty, Rocky Jennings for engines...
AA, Rancho for manual; "German" for auto trans) have a national reputation and help
those vans earn top dollar; local "VW guy" possibly/probably less. If local, contact
rebuilder directly and ask for references.
- How many miles on the rebuilds?
- Where is the van? If you're in Hack, NJ there may be some Samba members near you willing to help,
or recommend a local shop for a PPI...I know I LOVE helping other people spend their money! 
Take pictures & post 'em up...keep in touch!
- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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HackAl
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2016
Posts: 338
Location: Bergen County, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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Thanks everyone. The Westy in question is actually posted in TheSamba Classified in my area. Just not sure I'd be violating any etiquette in linking to it. The seller is a site user and seems like a great guy.
I will ask more questions about the paper trail and rebuilds. Manual trans. No rust at all apparently.
Not any easy decision for me or my family. We want our first experience with this to be a positive one. I'd rather "jump in" now for something relatively solid than be faced with a multitude of successive challenges.
In all honesty, this feels more like buying a second home. Didn't sleep much last night and I'm seeing this vehicle in a couple hours. Need to make coffee and put my poker face on. 
Last edited by HackAl on Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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HackAl
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2016
Posts: 338
Location: Bergen County, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Another question I have is how much can I expect to pay in maintenance and repairs over say, the next 5 years, based on the work already done? What's should be scheduled or expected to break? |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| HackAl wrote: |
| Another question I have is how much can I expect to pay in maintenance and repairs over say, the next 5 years... |
Impossible to predict but, FWIW, I have spent an average of $500 per year over the past 27 years.
Of course that included years where I spent more than $5,000 and many years where I spent less than $50. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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cmayna
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 1148
Location: SF Bay area, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| HackAl wrote: |
| Another question I have is how much can I expect to pay in maintenance and repairs over say, the next 5 years, based on the work already done? What's should be scheduled or expected to break? |
All I can say is, the more you can do yourself, the more you will save moola but also learn about the rig, so if you have a roadside issue, it might not be too foreign to you.
_________________
'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Craig |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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On the Westy one of the traditional problems is the the water system. Not that id does not work, but over time the plumbing is out of sight and out of mind so any leaks that develop are potentially pooling up and starting to rust from the inside out.
You can see this along the body panel seam between the side panel and the sill on the drivers side between the front and rear wheel. Some of them rot out really bad, but many if caught in time are repairable/cleaning without too much effort.
Another area to look for rust is under the window rubber seals-if you see bubbling of the paint at the edge of the rubber it is an indication of rust under the rubber seal and you will have to remove the window to repair it.
considering it is 25 years old replacing the window rubber is not a bad idea for a winter project. The rust under the window rubber usually turns into a hole so best not to ignore it.
A '91 for 23g's...better jump as you have given away the locality and good price...there are wolves here... |
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7478
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| HackAl wrote: |
| Another question I have is how much can I expect to pay in maintenance and repairs over say, the next 5 years, based on the work already done? What's should be scheduled or expected to break? |
That depends. I spent less than $500 per year over 16 years and 100k plus miles on my '85 (rack, assorted cooling bits, tires, brakes, other maintenance). I've had my '90 for two years and just did a $16k engine conversion (but that was expected, 2.1 motors can need replacement at 150 k miles, then you need to decide if you'll do that work on the cheap for $5k or a fancy conversion for $20k).
If you're paying a shop $100 per hour the $$$ add up fast.
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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HackAl
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2016
Posts: 338
Location: Bergen County, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Meeting went well. Seller is a gentleman and the vehicle presents very well. Lot to think about now. Again, thanks for all the help. More to come... |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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rough guess would be $500/year for the 3rd-8th years owned - more in 1st two years
But... the real way to do it is to make an absolutely thorough inspection by a careful and highly experienced vanagon mechanic, the add up those costs.
Next get the long-term maintenance list form GoWesty and add those costs in.
3rd step - any bodywork needed. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Jtanguay
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:22 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Good morning all. Hoping this is the right place for this post. I too search help in a purchase. Found a 1990 2nd owner Westy in the southwest and wondering about some thoughts. 166k miles, $12k from a sweet old lady that has owned it since 1998. Only repairs she calls is doing the water pump twice and normal routine maintenance. Being in Vermont, it is risky to spend the money to travel without some advice. Looks to be in great shape, however she hasn't used the camping gear since purchased and said there as a small rip in the canvas. Any thoughts? Seems like a good deal for a rust free vanagon, but worried with the miles it could need a lot of work soon. Thanks for any advice!!! |
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campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4492
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Jtanguay wrote: |
| Good morning all. Hoping this is the right place for this post. I too search help in a purchase. Found a 1990 2nd owner Westy in the southwest and wondering about some thoughts. 166k miles, $12k from a sweet old lady that has owned it since 1998. Only repairs she calls is doing the water pump twice and normal routine maintenance. Being in Vermont, it is risky to spend the money to travel without some advice. Looks to be in great shape, however she hasn't used the camping gear since purchased and said there as a small rip in the canvas. Any thoughts? Seems like a good deal for a rust free vanagon, but worried with the miles it could need a lot of work soon. Thanks for any advice!!! |
Always a risk, but you could ask her to drop it off at an agreed shop for a pre-purchase inspection, or perhaps someone on Samba could look at it for you.
_________________
'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Jtanguay wrote: |
| Good morning all. Hoping this is the right place for this post. I too search help in a purchase. Found a 1990 2nd owner Westy in the southwest and wondering about some thoughts. 166k miles, $12k from a sweet old lady that has owned it since 1998. Only repairs she calls is doing the water pump twice and normal routine maintenance. Being in Vermont, it is risky to spend the money to travel without some advice. Looks to be in great shape, however she hasn't used the camping gear since purchased and said there as a small rip in the canvas. Any thoughts? Seems like a good deal for a rust free vanagon, but worried with the miles it could need a lot of work soon. Thanks for any advice!!! |
Yeah...... Sweet old ladies start out as wild young women!
I agree about a shop evaluation in her area.
166,000 is a lot of miles. A WBX engine is nearing it's "danger" point on rod bolts and head gaskets.
But having a rust free Van in Vermont is a huge plus! It is worth a price premium for sure.
Have the shop check it out, fly down ready to buy but be ready to walk if it is badly misrepresented by the sweet old lady.
Didn't use the camper? Why? Why even buy a camper?
Price wise.... 12 grand for a good solid 90 is a good price!
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Jtanguay
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Advice sought: 91 Westy |
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| Dave - thanks for your reply. I have been looking at vans, but seems like rust free ones are goon for over 20k with new motors! My VW mechanic friend said if it has been sitting for a few years it could need a lot of work. Owner used the stove but never used the frig. Do you think I can find a lower mileage one for under 15k? Seems like a lot pop up on sites. Some folks are crazy asking 30k!! |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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