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Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed
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modok
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

I might believe he has that much time in it, but

Amateur level metal work on a vintage VW does not pay 70$ an hour.

If it did..........we'd all be doing it! duh
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arizonabuckeye
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

What ended up happening?
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laneven28
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

Appreciate all the responses and perspectives. We went at it pretty hard for an hour debating cost vs. quality and how to manage customer expectations.

His perspective was he was doing high quality work and had mentioned that to me several times throughout the process and even noted hours he had in it. Quality takes time and time costs $ was his argument. I don't disagree with any of that, but it's only half the equation.

My position was he'd never mentioned he was charging an hourly rate, didn't disclose what that hourly rate was, and the only figure that had been on the table the entire project was $1k for the whole job that he'd agreed "was in the ballpark" on more than one occasion. $4200 is NOT in the ballpark of $1k. $3k is NOT in the ballpark of $1k. Had I known how he was billing and what the cost had crept up to, I'd have told him to stop. I explained that If I missed my budget at my job by 300%, I'd be fired. If I missed by 50% without warning anyone, I'd be fired. Not telling me where we were financially throughout the project, especially when he knew we were well over $1k, was unacceptable. He agreed he'd failed to keep me informed, and apologized.

I gave a simple example: You contract with a builder to build you a house. You tell him you want to spend $100k. He says "great, I'm going to build you the best house, high quality, you'll love it". Throughout the building process, he tells you "Man I've spend a lot of time on this house, but it's high quality just like you wanted". Great, you're happy. When the house is built he comes to you and says "All done. The house is $420k, I know it's more than you budgeted so I'll knock it down to $300k for you. But it sure is high quality". As a customer, are you ok with this approach? Absolutely not. But that's exactly what you just did to me.

I told him I was not going to pay $3k. I knew I was going to have to pay more than I expected, but he was going to have to eat more than he expected as well. We would both have to compromise.

We cooled down for a week, then slowly started to come to agreement. I gave him $1k for the work to that point. We agreed going forward that I'd give him $500 as a deposit, and he'd eat that up wrapping up the rest of the project. We'll meet weekly to look at progress, and discuss where we are financially.

What's left:
1. Welding one bumper bracket to the side wall (one side is done, the bumper will be used to fit and weld the second one)
2. Fitting and welding in new engine bay side trays
3. Welding in a single fender weld nut
4. Welding up tail light holes on one fender
5. Welding in a 1 x 1 patch to a fender flange

He says those will take 8-24 hours to finish everything. Reasonable? I'm not sure - pretty sure I could weld all those together in 8 hours or less. Regardless, I'll give him a chance, but will cut off when I'm done spending and will finish the rest on my own if it goes beyond another $1k. That's my limit.
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MODIFIER
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

If you spent more than 10 hours leisurely removing and installing a front or rear clip you are not very professional.
I do 25 to 30 hours of heavy panel replacement every day in 8 hours.
Been doing it for over 30 years.
This guy is taking you to the cleaners in every way.
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Spezialist
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

He should have called you before he went over the estimate, since it's his estimate he is responsible for sticking to it.
70$ and hour for unskilled average joe body work, primmadonna.
If he knew what he was doing his estimate would have been on.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

MODIFIER wrote:
If you spent more than 10 hours leisurely removing and installing a front or rear clip you are not very professional.
I do 25 to 30 hours of heavy panel replacement every day in 8 hours.
Been doing it for over 30 years.
This guy is taking you to the cleaners in every way.


here is the problem....

to drill and remove a billion welds, test fit and re-weld takes time. the issue here is everyone wants it to look "factory" on a beer and pop corn budget.

I know tricks on how to replace panels and make it "look" factory, and do it fast...usually it involves embellishing lines etc with a die grinder...fast, yes, correct? no so much

fast
cheap
correct

pick two

the other issue is customer says "well I want it nice, but don't want to spend too much" so, the tradesman gives a good job based on the customer expectations

customer then brings car home and has his buddies over...and they pick the car apart. they get into the owners head with comments like "you paid how much for that" so, now the customer/owner feels ripped off and is pissed at the guy who did the work. rather than admit to his "buddies" that he was a cheap fuck and told the guy doing to the work to make it "good enough" he calls out the guy who did the work and says "hey, you're a hack"

it's a slippery slope doing work like this without a full understanding on what you are getting for your money. the key to avoid shit like this is get signed documentation on what is being done, and to what level of "perfection" you are being charged.

again, I could tell you some tricks to make spot welds "look" real when in fact they are just smoke and mirrors. so, what level of "correct" are you looking to spend?
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Spezialist
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
MODIFIER wrote:
If you spent more than 10 hours leisurely removing and installing a front or rear clip you are not very professional.
I do 25 to 30 hours of heavy panel replacement every day in 8 hours.
Been doing it for over 30 years.
This guy is taking you to the cleaners in every way.


here is the problem....

to drill and remove a billion welds, test fit and re-weld takes time. the issue here is everyone wants it to look "factory" on a beer and pop corn budget.

I know tricks on how to replace panels and make it "look" factory, and do it fast...usually it involves embellishing lines etc with a die grinder...fast, yes, correct? no so much

fast
cheap
correct

pick two

the other issue is customer says "well I want it nice, but don't want to spend too much" so, the tradesman gives a good job based on the customer expectations

customer then brings car home and has his buddies over...and they pick the car apart. they get into the owners head with comments like "you paid how much for that" so, now the customer/owner feels ripped off and is pissed at the guy who did the work. rather than admit to his "buddies" that he was a cheap fuck and told the guy doing to the work to make it "good enough" he calls out the guy who did the work and says "hey, you're a hack"

it's a slippery slope doing work like this without a full understanding on what you are getting for your money. the key to avoid shit like this is get signed documentation on what is being done, and to what level of "perfection" you are being charged.

again, I could tell you some tricks to make spot welds "look" real when in fact they are just smoke and mirrors. so, what level of "correct" are you looking to spend?


You are the master of smoke and mirrors.
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Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 15628
Location: sticksville, ct.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Work - Expert Opinions Needed Reply with quote

Spezialist wrote:
You are the master of smoke and mirrors.


yes, Rodney, I am Wink
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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