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1978 Champagne II westy found
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

I don't get on the bay window forums much at all, I've had a couple bays but mainly splits. but just got a deal on this Westy. Motor was replaced 10,000 miles ago, it originally came from cali and was owned by someone in texas and has been sitting for the last 10 years with the family starting it and driving a couple times a year around the block until the starter went out a couple years ago and hasn't been tagged in 8 years. Battery tray is trash. poptop has some tare and patches already. It needs lots of clean up. comes with lots of new stuff to fix it's problems.
What do you think the going rate for one in this shape would be?
My wife and I are excited to go thru it and get it going for use this spring and maybe restore next fall/winter
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Nice foundation to build on, fore sure. You didn't note if it's running the original FI or was swapped over to carbs? Any engine photo's?
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Looks like some great potential. You probably know the late Type 4 fuel injected motor is among the more expensive of stock motors to rebuild/maintain. Valve seat failures and the catastrophic damage that result are common. The L-jet components are not cheap as a whole, either.

Probably good to get a compression reading off the cylinders and go through the engine management system. Doing this will get you a better idea of total worth of your promising camper. My two cents in value here is about $8-10 if all the pieces of the puzzle are there, they all fit and work and you have a decent power train.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Ya it's still FI. I've heard that can be an issue with these. I'll get motor pics as soon as I get it home. hopefully this weekend. I have full receipts of the motor rebuild and all done to the motor 10,000 ago. Looks like it was gone thru pretty good.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

I will say I bought the bus cheaper than what they paid for the engine rebuild.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
I will say I bought the bus cheaper than what they paid for the engine rebuild.


They likely paid more than $3,000-$4,000 or more for a Type 4 rebuild, and that is probably on the cheap, so you are already way ahead. The CE campers are relatively rare.

I had good fit-up with the battery tray replacement for both my 1973 and 1977 buses from Bus Depot, so don't be afraid of getting those parts from them or your favorite vendor, which is probably from the same supplier anyway. Don't forget the battery hold down clamp.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
Ya it's still FI. I've heard that can be an issue with these. I'll get motor pics as soon as I get it home. hopefully this weekend. I have full receipts of the motor rebuild and all done to the motor 10,000 ago. Looks like it was gone thru pretty good.


The fact that the bus is running it's original FI engine is a good thing. Once they are dialed in correctly, people love them. If I was looking for a late bay to buy, I wouldn't even consider one that had the FI removed. VW's that are demanding the best resale value are ones that are not molested and are original.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
EmpiGT wrote:
Ya it's still FI. I've heard that can be an issue with these. I'll get motor pics as soon as I get it home. hopefully this weekend. I have full receipts of the motor rebuild and all done to the motor 10,000 ago. Looks like it was gone thru pretty good.


The fact that the bus is running it's original FI engine is a good thing. Once they are dialed in correctly, people love them. If I was looking for a late bay to buy, I wouldn't even consider one that had the FI removed. VW's that are demanding the best resale value are ones that are not molested and are original.


^^ What he said. When I bought my long-parked 1977 CE-1, I had zero experience with L-jet fuel injection. Once I got some knowledge in and dialed it all in, I had the smoothest, most responsive VW I'd ever experienced. No way would I rip that equipment out in place of carbs. That said, I will tell you L-jet is intolerant of any kind of neglect, shortcut or faulty part. Expect the L-jet to let you down if you disrespect it.
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Last edited by Wasted youth on Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

All the other Bay's I had were early, 71 and older so this will be a new learning experience for me. After it setting this long I figure all new fuel lines and a gas tank cleaning are in order. I don't want any fires. You hit it pretty close on the engine rebuild. It was $3017 and that was over 15 years ago and not driven much in ten years. It's really very solid except for the battery tray and the rust around that marker light. Floors look great. Maybe next week after picking it up I can have it driving. Just hope sitting hasn't hurt other things too much. The guy that I bought it from already bought a new battery tray to put in it, he just never got around to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Sweet! Well, you obviously know about all the other things like CV joints, brakes, and electrical. FWIW, I followed Ratwell's gas tank renovation topic to the letter and was very pleased at the results.

Don't know your location, but hopefully you will not be encumbered by California emissions testing. It's getting a little dicey trying to make that an affordable task.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
After it setting this long I figure all new fuel lines and a gas tank cleaning are in order. I don't want any fires.


I'm glad to read this. If you look at the Bus fire thread, the majority of the fires appear to impact FI powered buses with the higher fuel pump pressure for the FI.

My 1970 bus is pretty simple to prevent engine fires in comparison. Low fuel pump pressure, new fuel lines and making sure the carb nipple and the fuel pump in/out nipples are secure.

One day I want to buy a stock late 2.0 FI powered bus. I really want to fully understand that FI system.
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**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**

**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**

My 1970 bus refresh thread- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598191

1970 Westfalia Bus
1969 Convertible Bug
1967 Standard Bug
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

I'm in Arkansas, so no smog tests here. Wink
Ar. has no inspection but cops can do a spot inspection if you get pulled over. You can drive a car here as long as it has working lights and windshield wipers, even if it smokes like a freight train.. if you get out in the country you should see some of the crap that's going down the road. Luckily I'm in the UofA area with half a million pop. in our area so not too many smoke pumpers around here.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Keep us posted, and there is a thread just for Champagne Edition buses. Name of the thread escapes me at the moment, but the key words are 'definitive, champagne'
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
EmpiGT wrote:
After it setting this long I figure all new fuel lines and a gas tank cleaning are in order. I don't want any fires.


I'm glad to read this. If you look at the Bus fire thread, the majority of the fires appear to impact FI powered buses with the higher fuel pump pressure for the FI.

My 1970 bus is pretty simple to prevent engine fires in comparison. Low fuel pump pressure, new fuel lines and making sure the carb nipple and the fuel pump in/out nipples are secure.

One day I want to buy a stock late 2.0 FI powered bus. I really want to fully understand that FI system.


Average fuel rail pressure 33-38 PSIG, so yeah... Do spend real time and money on proper FI clamps and highest quality hose.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Will do.. I'll update as soon as it get here. Thanks for the info.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

I am not sure what's going on with that one sliding door shot...but it doesn't matter. Spend an hour underneath on your back and then and only then can you make a "True assessment" of the issues you may be fighting in the future. Pay particular attention to the front beam and the where the trailing arms are in the rear. Take a screw driver and "Poke" around. Being that these are unibody construction and there is no way to fix the "frame" if it's a mess underneath....which most are....walk away....fast. If you are ambitious, mechanically inclined...have deep pockets and love the rush of finding quality NOS parts...have at it! I am on a 5 year build which is finally coming to fruition. The hard part is finding an unmolested one that someone else has not already effed up. If its mostly original, hasn't had many owners, is good to go underneath which is the deal breaker for me. Everything else can be fixed. Plan on 5 grand to get it mechanically sound.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Sliding door shot? with it closed you can see the slider cover on the quarter is unbolted and off, but it opens and shuts good and straight. Under side looks solid.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

Very nice find, and good score. I paid $5k for mine in similar condition, but it was running and driving just needing front brakes. After over a year of driving it the whole exhaust/heat system was rotted bad so i had that replaced and the engine gone thru at the same time. My battery tray/that corner was also shot, and I have had all that metal replaced as well. Some ticky tack projects and repairs and over a grand in rubber waiting for the body/paint to happen and I still haven't got $10k into it. They are fun for sure. As a camper/skiier/hiker I could not ask for a better adventure machine. Keep the FI, it is totally worth it. People are dumping whole FI setups all the time, so keep your eye on the classifieds for the pieces you'll need. I got a real decel valve last year and it made a huge difference from the hacked in one from some other car that was in there when I bought it.
Try this guy for some of the hard to find hoses: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=GEEBEE
not cheap but it is aircraft quality.
Also, for fuel hose, clamps, hardware www.belmetric.com has all the weird sizes you will need.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

My '78 is a Champagne, so I'm partial to these beautiful brown buses!

I'll add a +1 on restoring the FI. I just installed a '78 FI system into my '73 (got it running yesterday) and it is wonderful! I really am very happy with having done that project.

I recommend pulling the injectors (including the cold start injector) and sending them to have them cleaned and rebuilt. I've used Cruzin' Performance and have had good results. About $100 for the set of 5 and they'll come back cleaned, working, with new screens and such. I'd contact him quick as he did tell me he was going on a trip soon.

Go ahead and replace all the other fuel lines while you're waiting for the injectors to come back. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure the metal fuel lines are clean and clear, too.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne II westy found Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
What do you think the going rate for one in this shape would be?

I would pay up to $4000 for that bus, based on what you said in the original post, with photos. More if the engine checks out. Once you have it all cleaned up and running, as a fun and functional and reliable camper, it will be worth far more. And, FWIW, I'm another FI fan, here. I hate all these carburetors I am having to deal with now...

Great find!
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