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jarad
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 127
Location: austin, texas
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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i'd buy a pair as well!
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1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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WLD*WSTY
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2009
Posts: 438
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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Add me to the list please! (I'd settle for a pattern.)
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'82 SyncroWesty, the first ever conversion.'06 Subaru 2.5L |
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Aerosport
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014
Posts: 67
Location: LV,NV
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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I would buy a set of adapters as well. Thanks and great post
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Stan L
'87 Westy GL - "Stanagon", 2wd WBX 4 speed
15" Rhein alloys, GW 1.5" lift springs & Fox shocks |
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zandr
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2014
Posts: 28
Location: Berkeley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:53 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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One of the nicest G60 conversions I've seen. I'd certainly be in for a kit if they were offered.
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'87 EJ22 Full Westy "Hamish" |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:42 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| WLD*WSTY wrote: |
| Add me to the list please! (I'd settle for a pattern.) |
I'd pay for just the file as well. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| Forthwithtx wrote: |
| The point of the thread for me was to be instructional. The big brake threads are great, but it took me a lot of time to sort through it all and a lot of extra work to make it happen. This thread, hopefully, will leave more questions unanswered. |
VERY NICELY DONE!
Congrats...
That original Audi big brake thread included a lot of hashing out of details and pioneering.. discussion back and forth.. figuring out the process as it all went down.
I used it to build mine, but it did take some patience.
This thread is extremely well done.. and succinct. I'd nominate it for a sticky.
With the only comment that this conversion can be done without the bracket.. (recognizing that the adapter bracket is a more sophisticated approach.. and eliminates a bothersome process necessary when removing caliper hanger for wheel bearing maintenance and such)
Thanks for posting this all up..
If you're machiniist friend ever wants to produce an adapter for 312mm disks.. sign me up!
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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61Scout
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Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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jarad
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 127
Location: austin, texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:50 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| WLD*WSTY wrote: |
| Add me to the list please! (I'd settle for a pattern.) |
I'd pay for just the file as well. |
agreed! spread the love! do it, do it, do it!
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1987 Sunroof Syncro
1987 Syncro Adventurewagen |
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svswan
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia WA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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Thanks for the write up - Excellent!
I'm curious about how you came up with the hole location on the brackets. Did you use the Brembo files on the first post to do the math and come up with hole location? I'm just completing my drawings to take to a machinest and went the other route - measured the spindle mounts, drilled some holes in a piece of ply, then held the carrier spaced off the rotor to mark the carrier holes on the ply.
If you did use the drawings, did you measure the original caliper/carrier combo to get a reference on where the hub mounting holes locate? I would think you could be more precise using the spec drawings which is why I ask. I'm pretty sure mine will work (did the drawing and used it to cut a sample, but not with a 3D printer - i wish.. but nothing I'm doing will be precise as metal and the machinist. I may find the motivation for math if I know someone else did it - thx
Shawn
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Hula - '91 Carat with '03 Subaru JDM WRX 2.0T
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7682086#7682086 |
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Forthwithtx
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 717
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:43 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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There's a picture in there that shows the design progression. I'm not the guy who did it, but I'm pretty sure it was from measurement and trial and error. He didn't 3D model the wheels, bearings, spindles, or calipers, which may have helped reduce the design iterations, but it would have been a lot of work up front.
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Cheers!
-Karl
'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:40 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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Great write up. I did get lost at some point. In the beginning you mention late model spindles to replace your early spindles. You then show cut down brake discs both early and late.
It reads like you ended up using the later spindles. If so, what was the exercise in machining the early brake discs?
Someone called me the other day about doing a similar conversion and I actually steered him in the direction of purchasing a complete kit.
I would have to imagine you have about 40 hours in this project. Great end result. Thank you.
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Forthwithtx
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Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 717
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
Great write up. I did get lost at some point. In the beginning you mention late model spindles to replace your early spindles. You then show cut down brake discs both early and late.
It reads like you ended up using the later spindles. If so, what was the exercise in machining the early brake discs?
Someone called me the other day about doing a similar conversion and I actually steered him in the direction of purchasing a complete kit.
I would have to imagine you have about 40 hours in this project. Great end result. Thank you. |
My van is an '84, so I needed late model spindles. I had an '86 donor van for a time, so they were available to me.
I swapped over the power steering from that van, so the spindles were coming over anyway.
The donor van also donated one set of late model rotors, which were turned into hubs. You can see them, still on the spindles, in at least one photo.
I don't really know which hubs ended up on my van, as they are pretty much identical after machining. The pictures show two different lathe setups, depending on which rotors you are machining (early or late).
It has been asked if I machine-faced the '84 spindles to accept the adapter brackets. I did not, and I may have tried if I didn't have late model spindles available.
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Cheers!
-Karl
'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L |
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svswan
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:14 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| Forthwithtx wrote: |
Engineering the caliper adapter bracket.
Engineering tools!
Trial and Error. |
I am wondering if you would be willing to talk a bit more about how you did the measuring on this. What did you use to get the position of the holes on your first mock up? How did you compare dimentions between the old caliper hanger and the new one to figure out the relationship between the two so that you could lay out the adapter?
Your write up is inspiring. It's good to see it can be done and to see the steps. I'm really hoping to use your info to move my project a little faster ;-} My first drawing -
is not going to work. Tags the caliper bad, and the hole placement will not let me trim enough and maintain strength I believe. Any tips on placing the bolt locations? What i'm going to try now is printing one of your pictures in the right size and cutting it out to hold up to my caliper/hanger to see how it looks...
thx for the write up
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Hula - '91 Carat with '03 Subaru JDM WRX 2.0T
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7682086#7682086 |
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svenakela
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 776
Location: Ekerö
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:47 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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Verrrry nice setup you've made!
Big brakes mod is the best mod, such a difference.
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Forthwithtx
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 717
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| svswan wrote: |
| Forthwithtx wrote: |
Engineering the caliper adapter bracket.
Engineering tools!
Trial and Error. |
I am wondering if you would be willing to talk a bit more about how you did the measuring on this. What did you use to get the position of the holes on your first mock up? How did you compare dimentions between the old caliper hanger and the new one to figure out the relationship between the two so that you could lay out the adapter?
Your write up is inspiring. It's good to see it can be done and to see the steps. I'm really hoping to use your info to move my project a little faster ;-} My first drawing -
is not going to work. Tags the caliper bad, and the hole placement will not let me trim enough and maintain strength I believe. Any tips on placing the bolt locations? What i'm going to try now is printing one of your pictures in the right size and cutting it out to hold up to my caliper/hanger to see how it looks...
thx for the write up |
Looks like a good start. Probably not compact enough for anything smaller than a 17" wheel, but I'm guessing. Looks like my friend is going to try to find a local machinist willing to make a batch of brackets, with the economies of CNC manufacturing. He can also make the hubs (one plated set already available), with rotor cores making it cheaper, of course.
There are reasons why the bracket file won't be shared. Can't say all the reasons, but they are what I would consider to be "intellectual property" at the very least. I'm not trying to be cagey about it. My goal was better brakes, and his part was potential recouping of his considerable time and effort. I will make no profit, myself.
So, this was not an effort to create an income stream for me in any way. I'm just trying to pay back a little for all the help this forum has given me in the last few years.
If brackets, centering rings, and/or hubs become available, they will appear in the classifieds.
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Cheers!
-Karl
'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L |
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svswan
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| Forthwithtx wrote: |
Looks like a good start. |
Thx Forthwith. Hula has the 16" C320 rims so I know they will fit, with the right bracket of course. I can certainly respect the time and effort your putting in. If I do it again I may just buy a SmallCar kit. I'm all ready in about $550 and I still need to get the brackets made. SmallCar would not supply braided lines with the kit, but I would certainly be driving by now ;-} My hubs cost me $265 in machining. First machine shop I visited said he would not mod brakes based on liability. Got worried at that. Asked around and learned of a local shop owned by a gearhead that does good work. Went there and they said 'sure'. I was so happy I didn't ask about cost. Not making that mistake again.
I'm working backwards off your photos, will adjust with my known hole spacing, and will come up with a better design. At least I'll understand the cad program by the time I'm done ;-}
Shawn
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Hula - '91 Carat with '03 Subaru JDM WRX 2.0T
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7682086#7682086 |
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noganav
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2006
Posts: 1236
Location: San Diego CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| Beautiful! Nice clean job. |
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icolquhoun
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 92
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:28 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| svswan wrote: |
| Forthwithtx wrote: |
Engineering the caliper adapter bracket.
Engineering tools!
Trial and Error. |
I am wondering if you would be willing to talk a bit more about how you did the measuring on this. What did you use to get the position of the holes on your first mock up? How did you compare dimentions between the old caliper hanger and the new one to figure out the relationship between the two so that you could lay out the adapter?
Your write up is inspiring. It's good to see it can be done and to see the steps. I'm really hoping to use your info to move my project a little faster ;-} My first drawing -
is not going to work. Tags the caliper bad, and the hole placement will not let me trim enough and maintain strength I believe. Any tips on placing the bolt locations? What i'm going to try now is printing one of your pictures in the right size and cutting it out to hold up to my caliper/hanger to see how it looks...
thx for the write up |
The cad file attached here has dimensions that indicate references that could lead to an expensive mistake if taken to a mchine shop that doesn't have all the parts in front of them and just workd from the drawing.
Linear dimensions from each outer hole will give you a adapter that could be off if you take it to a machinist after tolerances are factored in.
Measure directly as the crow flies from the center of the spindle holes to each other and provide this number with an aligned dimension. Do the same for the caliper holes. Then reference say the leftmost spindle hole to the leftmost caliper hole, and from that same spindle hole to the right caliper hole.
A set of centerfinding tips for a set of calipers and several try-and-fit prototpyes like the OP did is really the only way to ensure this is good.
designing something done this nicely and having it work 1st go-round is very very very rare, even with the best reverse engineering tools available. |
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Team WorldTour
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:57 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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So, this might be a stupid question, but why go through all this trouble, when GW has a one piece set that bolts right up?
Out of all the 'kits' that have come and gone, GW still has theirs.
Also, if you pester them long enough, you can find out the part # for the Audi pads it uses......
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icolquhoun
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 92
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: Re: My Audi-Based Big Brake Project - Fronts Only (Pic Heavy) |
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| Team WorldTour wrote: |
So, this might be a stupid question, but why go through all this trouble, when GW has a one piece set that bolts right up?
Out of all the 'kits' that have come and gone, GW still has theirs.
Also, if you pester them long enough, you can find out the part # for the Audi pads it uses...... |
The GW kit doesnt use audi parts, but from what I've gathered Toyota Highlander calipers/pads.
It also uses a GW-only rotor which most do not like because it predicates them always buying rotors in the future through GW.
This kit as shown here is incredibly well-thought out and executed using off the shelf "consumable" parts that are easily acquired at any FLAPS |
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