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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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 Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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My horn gives a little beep whenever I turn the steering wheel to the right. Seems like a loose connection or short...?
I want to check it out but am a bit intimidated. Never looked in the steering column before. Can anyone please post a picture with explanation (not wiring diagram) of what I'll see when I take the horn button off?
Thanks! |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| What I said in your other post was to put more space between the wheel and the column. You did say it blew when you turned? If you had to turn the wheel to a certain spot it would be a ground in the steering box. Moving the column down a bite is an easy fix before you start tearing into the column. |
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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| Ron Domeck wrote: |
| What I said in your other post was to put more space between the wheel and the column. You did say it blew when you turned? If you had to turn the wheel to a certain spot it would be a ground in the steering box. Moving the column down a bite is an easy fix before you start tearing into the column. |
Thanks. I think I missed that comment earlier. I haven't touched the steering column until now so not entirely sure what to do. You said there were 2 bolts at the top? Below the steering wheel? And when you say to move the column down, do you mean to aim it more toward the seat (lower), or to move the whole column downward away from the dash?
From reading other threads here, I do agree that it seems like a grounding issue. Seems like the contacts for the horn are a common problem. Is there a convenient way to get a look at them? Can I just remove the middle part of the steering wheel?
Really appreciate all the help! |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| The column tube is held on with 2 8mm bolts, 13mm wrench below the speedo panel. The column is sloted. You will be moving the tube only, not the steering wheel. The space between the column housing and the wheel should be about 1/8 in. You will be sliding the column down to the front of the car. The column will be hard to move because of the rubber seal at the firewall, bottom of tube. You may need to tap the tube at the bolt area. Pictures of the space at the wheel would help. |
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tallman206
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2006
Posts: 316
Location: St.Petersburg Florida USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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If the gap has closed, it usually doesn't do it without a reason. It might be prudent to look underneath at the condition of the circular rubber steering coupler disc. Our aging vehicles often have these parts disentigrate, will cause play in the steering column, not to mention a serious safety issue if it gives way.
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Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| Good point Jerry. Down on that end the coupler on the column side can be adjusted to move the steering wheel up. Pinch bolt could be loose from repairs such as a steering box replaced. |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| Stock or aftermarket steering wheel? |
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jjrannauro
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2011
Posts: 217
Location: MEXICO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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My Thing has the stock horn and "The Dixie" like General Lee from the Dukes of Hazzard".
I play it with a button (the red one) I installed on the dashboard.
I only use this one when I'm having fun on the country or off road
and I don't bug anybody. These are very loud.
This is how I installed the horns on an aluminium bar using the bumpers brackts holes.
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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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Thanks for the tips, guys. Sorry I disappeared. We moved and I had absolutely no time for anything else for a while. But now I'm ready to get this horn issue resolved!
So, first things first. Pictures! This is what it looks like now.
Now to loosed those bolts and try moving the column down as you suggested....
[/img] |
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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| tallman206 wrote: |
| If the gap has closed, it usually doesn't do it without a reason. It might be prudent to look underneath at the condition of the circular rubber steering coupler disc. Our aging vehicles often have these parts disentigrate, will cause play in the steering column, not to mention a serious safety issue if it gives way. |
Can you describe exactly where is the circular rubber steering coupler disc? Inside the car at the firewall or underneath? What should it look like? |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2770
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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Here's a photo from the gallery:
It looks like the photo was taken through the fuel tank opening (with the tank removed), but you can see this thing by looking through the driver's side front wheel arch.
The horn is grounded through the steering column when you press the button.
The steering column (shaft) is grounded to the chassis by a jumper wire (barely visible in this photo) between the opposing pieces bolted through the rubber coupler.
The rubber couplers wear out gradually, but the urethane couplers break apart all at once...so avoid the urethane couplers.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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Thanks for that. I will look at the coupler on mine in a bit.
For now still trying to fix the horn that annoyingly beeps when I turn the wheel to the right. I THINK this is the gap I'm trying to enlarge:
Is that correct? |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2770
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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Chech this photo:
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SomeThing
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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Yes! SUCCESS!
Thank you all for your help! Now I can drive without having other drivers get mad when they think I am honking at them for no reason. |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| How do you wire the relay in for the horn? Is it just to be sure you are getting a full 12v to the horn and not voltage drop? |
The horn has a fairly high initial current when it cuts in so with VW's original method if the contacts get dirty or are otherwise poor, you can get a weak sound, off-tone sound, and not really proper activation if you don't really mash the horn button.
If you use a relay the horn button is only grounding the relay coil which is very low current so you get a much more "solid" horn activation via the relay and a bit more precise control of the sound you get out of it from a little toot to a full on blast that doesn't sound like a dying goose.
If you are going to use dual horns you definitely want to use a relay.
I used a 4-pin horn relay from a Ghia, wired sort of the opposite of the diagram above. I had already run a new 10ga wire from the battery under the dash to carry power for my H4 headlights so I just tapped off that and ran it to 30 on the horn relay. I made up a new wire from the horn position on the fuse box to 86 on the relay. I used the existing black/yellow wire to the horn on 87 on the relay. Then I made up a new brown wire from 85 and tied it into the existing horn ground wire at the T1 connector under the dash. So when you push the horn button you ground the relay coil which activates the relay. |
r
I know this is old but if it's wired the way it shown in the diagram instead of the way this poster recommended, you're still sending the full 30 amps to the ground through the horn switch, correct? You want the relay to take the current off of the horn switch and the hot wire should be direct to the horn. Right?
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2021
Posts: 10
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Horns |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
The horn has power via the black/yellow wire all the time that the ignition is turned on. The horn, in stock configuration, DOES NOT ground to the bumper. If the horn did ground to the bumper, it would sound constantly whenever the key was turned on.
You can easily test the horn itself by turning on the ignition and connecting a jumper wire from the ground terminal on the horn (the one with the brown wire to it) and any chassis ground. If the horn itself is good the horn will sound at this point. If it does not sound, verify you have 12v on the black/yellow wire. If not, go trace that back and find out why not. If you do, horn itself is bad.
So if the horn sounds when you test it that way but does not sound when you push the horn button on the steering wheel, you have to trace out the ground circuit.
The brown wire from the horn runs into the car and up into the steering column along with the wires for the turn signal switch. There is a connector in line with the wire just before it enters the column, you can disconnect that and jump the horn end of that wire to a good ground which should make the horn sound. That tells you your brown wire is good up to that point. Hook it back up.
If you pop off the center cap of the steering wheel you will see a brown wire on a terminal that then runs down the hollow center of the steering column. That is not the same brown wire as the one from the horn. But when you push the button, you are connecting those brown wires together. The wire that runs down the center of the steering column jumps over the steering coupler and grounds to the steering gear box or somewhere in that vicinity. So use your meter to check continuity between that wire and ground. If you don't have it, find out why. Get under the front left wheel well and see where it comes out of the column, make sure it's not broken, make sure it's not corroded, make sure it's grounded.
If you still aren't getting love you probably need to pull the steering wheel and inspect the contacts in the turn signal switch. As mpb181 said, if the contact strips there are worn out or broken, the horn won't work.
You could go back to that inline connector just before the steering column, disconnect that, then jumper the horn end of that wire to the brown wire that goes down the center of the steering column. If that makes the horn sound, that tells you your problem is in between those two points - either the wire into the steering column, the contact strips on the turn signal switch, or the contacts on the horn button itself. |
Been trying to get my horn working, brand new wiring harness. BUT... my steering column shaft is not hollow... ?? |
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Dougster43
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Horns |
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The wire runs through the column (actually I think it's built into the turn signal switch) - not through the steering shaft which as you point out is not hollow.
The steering shaft is grounded through the steering box and there is a wire jumper across the steering shaft coupler to maintain that ground. That ground then runs into the metal frame of the steering wheel through the metal to metal contact between the wheel and the shaft. When you press the horn button, that ground passes through some metal contacts and into the wire that is part of the horn contact ring. There is a wiper in the column (part of the turn signal switch if I recall properly) that makes contact with the ring. Then the ground travels down through a wire that is built into the turn signal switch to one of the plugs at the bottom of the switch. From there the wire goes through the body back down to the horn. Hope that helps.
| [email protected] wrote: |
| sjbartnik wrote: |
The horn has power via the black/yellow wire all the time that the ignition is turned on. The horn, in stock configuration, DOES NOT ground to the bumper. If the horn did ground to the bumper, it would sound constantly whenever the key was turned on.
You can easily test the horn itself by turning on the ignition and connecting a jumper wire from the ground terminal on the horn (the one with the brown wire to it) and any chassis ground. If the horn itself is good the horn will sound at this point. If it does not sound, verify you have 12v on the black/yellow wire. If not, go trace that back and find out why not. If you do, horn itself is bad.
So if the horn sounds when you test it that way but does not sound when you push the horn button on the steering wheel, you have to trace out the ground circuit.
The brown wire from the horn runs into the car and up into the steering column along with the wires for the turn signal switch. There is a connector in line with the wire just before it enters the column, you can disconnect that and jump the horn end of that wire to a good ground which should make the horn sound. That tells you your brown wire is good up to that point. Hook it back up.
If you pop off the center cap of the steering wheel you will see a brown wire on a terminal that then runs down the hollow center of the steering column. That is not the same brown wire as the one from the horn. But when you push the button, you are connecting those brown wires together. The wire that runs down the center of the steering column jumps over the steering coupler and grounds to the steering gear box or somewhere in that vicinity. So use your meter to check continuity between that wire and ground. If you don't have it, find out why. Get under the front left wheel well and see where it comes out of the column, make sure it's not broken, make sure it's not corroded, make sure it's grounded.
If you still aren't getting love you probably need to pull the steering wheel and inspect the contacts in the turn signal switch. As mpb181 said, if the contact strips there are worn out or broken, the horn won't work.
You could go back to that inline connector just before the steering column, disconnect that, then jumper the horn end of that wire to the brown wire that goes down the center of the steering column. If that makes the horn sound, that tells you your problem is in between those two points - either the wire into the steering column, the contact strips on the turn signal switch, or the contacts on the horn button itself. |
Been trying to get my horn working, brand new wiring harness. BUT... my steering column shaft is not hollow... ?? |
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