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61Scout Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011 Posts: 1297 Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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So I live in a very windy area of WA state. I've tried the rubber washer fix for the floppy mirrors, but honestly never had much luck, especially when there were crosswinds. Over time the rubber washer wears out from adjustment and dries out (I live in a desert) and it becomes less effective over time. I also often travel through the Columbia Gorge, which has some of the strongest gusts in the country. So I thought about this issue for a while and came up with an alternative mod.
Here we go:
Step 1. Remove the plastic cup piece. This adds a bit of friction to the over all set up. If you look carefully the match between this piece and the base isn't perfect and actually doesn't make a whole lot of contact. Removing the plastic piece gets rid of the slippery part.
Step 2. Use your dremel with the cut-off wheel to create lines in the rounded piece like shown. I went approximately 1-2mm. No need to get crazy here, but you want enough depth to easily catch your fingernail. This will now "dig in" to the backside of the base, where the real contact point is, imo.
Step 3. Add a couple washers between the spring and the nut. 1/4" washers work fine, I found two of them were about 3mm thick. This will add just a tad of spring tension, but still allow the mirror to adjust. Then reassemble the mirror.
That's all there is to it! I've tested these for about a week now and they are holding up great at 75-80mph in decent crosswinds. So if the other techniques didn't work, give this a shot before giving up on the manual mirrors.
-Kevin _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu
Last edited by 61Scout on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32634 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7757 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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That should do it...nice work! _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3100 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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how much force to adjust them? _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2323 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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I just find an injured pine tree and smear some resin on the ball & socket.
Now THAT’S alternative! _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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61Scout Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011 Posts: 1297 Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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vanis13 wrote: |
how much force to adjust them? |
It's stiff, but not overly stiff to where the sheet metal on the door is flexing. The cuts on the rounded/domed piece just add traction. I took it apart after modifying and the paint on the inside of the base piece gets cut away now, so it's definitely grabbing.
On the rubber washer mod the thickness of the rubber is what is essentially creating greater spring tension. On this mod, greater spring tension is created on the other side by adding the two washers under the nut.
If you have a mirror apart, just run the base up to the mirror, take a flashlight and look from the backside of the base up into the cavity. the contact there is very small, maybe 20% between the base and the mirror. Whereas the base and the rounded/domed piece the contact area is probably 90-95%.
My experience with the rubber washer is that it worked okay, but it didn't stand up to crosswinds and it eventually wore out. What I like about this mod is that there is no rubber piece to wear out, nor any question about if the rubber is the correct thickness or if it's too soft or too hard of a rubber. I suppose if one really wanted a belt and suspenders type mod, a piece of inner tube could be inserted between the base and the mirror.
Gnarlodious wrote: |
I just find an injured pine tree and smear some resin on the ball & socket. |
Good to know, and probably smells good too! Christopher at T3 recommended in another thread that there was some kind of "carbon paste" product that bike builders use that will help also.
-Kevin _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu |
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maco70 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 456 Location: Montréal, Québec
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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Is another altertative approach can be to replace floppy mirrors by power mirror... without power?
I mean, since power mirrors are known to be much more stable on wind than the non power ones, can we install power mirrors but not putting power on them, or it will be a mess to adjust them without power ?
Thanks in advance foer your comments. _________________ Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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the problem I have found is the hex shaft to which the mounting screw and spring are attached to, pulls out of the mirror arm. adding more frixtion may help temporarily, but bottom line is if the shaft is moving out, it will loosen again.
I have removed the shaft, and reinstalled with locktite, and then peened over the metal on the arm near the shaft to help secure it.
failing that, drill a hole perpendiculr to the shaft and pin it in place (the way VW should have done it)
I did do the increase friction route prior to the shaft repair, used rubber washers, this repair did not last long, as the shaft eventually moved out more.
good luck.
ps if the shaft completely comes out when driving, kiss the mirror good bye! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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maco70 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 456 Location: Montréal, Québec
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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Thanks !
So, I will buy "no-flop' side view mirrors (non power) from Gowesty, I believe.
Martin _________________ Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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maco70 wrote: |
Thanks !
So, I will buy "no-flop' side view mirrors (non power) from Gowesty, I believe.
Martin |
wonder how they modify them to not flop, might be easy to modify your own mirrors and save some money doing so. pin the hex shaft? add a rubber washer? _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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maco70 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 456 Location: Montréal, Québec
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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Yes, I agree, but I broke the passenger mirror (the glass) so anyway I have to replace it. _________________ Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7479 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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maco70 wrote: |
Is another altertative approach can be to replace floppy mirrors by power mirror... without power?
I mean, since power mirrors are known to be much more stable on wind than the non power ones, can we install power mirrors but not putting power on them, or it will be a mess to adjust them without power ?
Thanks in advance foer your comments. |
Power mirrors adjust well w/out power. Search for other threads on this topic, I believe I've read the GW no-flop mirrors eventually flop too.
As for bluebus's comments, I believe he was referring to the bolt on the floppy mirrors pulling out. That was the death knell on my 85's mirrors. No amount of friction material would help because the bolt just kept pulling out. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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jimf909 wrote: |
maco70 wrote: |
Is another altertative approach can be to replace floppy mirrors by power mirror... without power?
I mean, since power mirrors are known to be much more stable on wind than the non power ones, can we install power mirrors but not putting power on them, or it will be a mess to adjust them without power ?
Thanks in advance foer your comments. |
Power mirrors adjust well w/out power. Search for other threads on this topic, I believe I've read the GW no-flop mirrors eventually flop too.
As for bluebus's comments, I believe he was referring to the bolt on the floppy mirrors pulling out. That was the death knell on my 85's mirrors. No amount of friction material would help because the bolt just kept pulling out. |
that final solution is to pin the threaded shaft (bolt as you call it) into the mirror arm, then it wont pull out. you can then tighten the nut without fear of thedtnreaded shaft pulling out.
good luck _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Stephenmarklay Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2016 Posts: 526 Location: Spokane
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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Gnarlodious wrote: |
I just find an injured pine tree and smear some resin on the ball & socket.
Now THAT’S alternative! |
OR
I have used Carbon Fiber paste used on bicycle parts. The paste is mildly gritty and is designed to allow lower torque on carbon fiber bits.
I may try that when my van is running in the spring. _________________ 1985 Westfalia. Project 2017. |
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VWBob88 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2019 Posts: 1 Location: WI
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Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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I took some of the black sticky material on the back of the FatMat insulation and put a ring of it where the ball makes contact. Seems to work good. |
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175grams Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2020 Posts: 25 Location: Guatemala
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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61Scout wrote: |
Step 1. Remove the plastic cup piece. This adds a bit of friction to the over all set up. If you look carefully the match between this piece and the base isn't perfect and actually doesn't make a whole lot of contact. Removing the plastic piece gets rid of the slippery part.
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I was excited about this idea but the base of my mirror looks different. Its either been hacked up a bit or maybe I'm missing something. See the picture below, any ideas? Would really love to fix the "flop".
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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jimf909 wrote: |
I believe I've read the GW no-flop mirrors eventually flop too.
As for bluebus's comments, I believe he was referring to the bolt on the floppy mirrors pulling out. That was the death knell on my 85's mirrors. No amount of friction material would help because the bolt just kept pulling out. |
They do indeed flop. Frankly, I didn't notice any improvement with the GW no flop mirrors. All the same problems as the cheaper "non-GW-modified" units. I replaced mine with power mirrors and tossed the GW junk. I have the wiring harness and switch to power them, but haven't bothered yet. I'm the only driver at the moment, and they are easily adjustable by hand. I have found that at freeway speeds they are a bit noisier - or at least a different more noticeable wind noise - than the non power units, but they do not move, ever. Really nice to hit major wind gusts on the freeway and still have perfectly adjusted mirrors. Worth the cost to me. And the mirror surfaces are actually larger than the non-power units. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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175grams Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2020 Posts: 25 Location: Guatemala
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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175grams wrote: |
61Scout wrote: |
Step 1. Remove the plastic cup piece. This adds a bit of friction to the over all set up. If you look carefully the match between this piece and the base isn't perfect and actually doesn't make a whole lot of contact. Removing the plastic piece gets rid of the slippery part.
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I was excited about this idea but the base of my mirror looks different. Its either been hacked up a bit or maybe I'm missing something. See the picture below, any ideas? Would really love to fix the "flop".
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Maybe I'm missing the plastic cup and nut after that... does that sound right? Wondering if I can salvage this one somehow without having that plastic cup piece. Any suggestions? |
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WiboBusMan Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2009 Posts: 141 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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The circular thing we see in your photo is what I would call the "ball" that fits in the socket. On top of that should be a fairly sturdy spring and then a washer (spring retainer), crowned with a 10mm nut, IIRC. The spring puts pressure on the ball, pressing it into the socket for a friction hold.
You would be missing the spring and washer and nut.
FWIW, I did this recently with my Doka - disassembled, cleaned and reassembled, putting two layers of thin nitrile material, cut from mechanics gloves, between the ball and the socket.No grease.
It's thin and spongy / flexible enough to not prevent the ball and socket from easily fitting into each other (I had done this on my Westy with inner tube material - too thick). You don't have to tighten to breaking torques, and its just sticky enough to grip, without binding which would make them non-adjustable.
I've been happy with the results.
Just my 2¢ worth.
W _________________ Science has sacrificed Truth on the altar of its narrative. |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Floppy mirror fix, an alternative approach |
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I did much the same, but used 2 very thin Fiber washers, with some grease, since they're thicker than your Nitrile material. The road trip to Texas and back in March had the mirrors staying put day after day from highway driving and all that bouncing.
The grease might keep the fiber washers holding up better against water ingress since I have the usual cracks at the mirror plastic as well. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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