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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: caught in the middle...( kinda long ) |
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This is a bit long so bear with me...
Okay so I offered to pickup a 75 vert that someone bought off the samba that was here in Houston. The purchaser is a very nice guy( based solely on my phone conversations and a few e-mails) in Oklahoma. He wants the car put back together to fly down when it is road worthy and drive it back. He wants to save ( rather spend ) the money he would pay for shipping a non drivable but rolling car by a carrier and put it twords having the car re-assembled. ( Some carriers do charge more to transport a non running partially assembled car)
The car has a fairly decent black paint job, new pans installed, 4 new tires, some recently re-upholstered seats and some new door panels and carpet and some parts included in the first pickup run. It supposedly ( I have yet to determine) has all new brake parts installed too. And it has a new windshield installed already... gas tank & some misc parts... rear window and metal frame
I picked up the car a few weeks ago on a Sunday but all the parts that were supposed to come with the car were not all in one place. This I did know and asked the contact here to gather all the parts that were supposed to come with the deal and I would come back another time to pick them all up at once. Well due to time constraints on my part several weeks have gone by and I was told that parts were all at a shop that I could come by and get them. The buyer told me what he was told should be included... but as I conversed with the seller it sounded like some things may now be missing.
Well I get to the shop where the seller used to work or what ever the story is... and I spoke with the owner of the shop( who also appear to be caught in the middle since he was the one storing some of the stuff for his buddy/ex partner/ co worker.... what ever the story is) before I came and I am expecting to pick up alot more than what was there. Now he was not there and it was after hours and he had an "employee" there so I could get the engine, the top frame, and other parts... I only got a small box of old trim parts and what nots... I was expecting, bumper struts ( the bumpers are something that were supposed to be there, but I had been told previously that they were trashed because they were not that great to begin with) and all the tail and front lights and assemblies and some wing vent glass and rear quater window glass ( the ones in the car the frames are there but the glass is busted out of them) I was first told that there would be new outer scraper and other rubber included. But now there is nothing of the sort included.
I was also told the engine only "needed an alternator" but in fact it has missing tin and rotted away FI exhaust ( the engine is converted to FI... the wiring harness is a butcher job, I am sure the car saw a fire at some point in its past) No clutch, no gland nut, pretty funky looking but time will tell if it is worth trying to make run or not.
I know it is "cavet emptor" and this guy bought the car site unseen based on a few pics and the wording of the add (I never saw the ad, don't know the price, and can't really say.) He does know that he is going to have to spend some bucks to get the car done, but if all these things are * POOF * then he is going to be spending alot more than he bargained for.
I am not flaming anyone... just airing out what is happening. I am not willing to be the middle man and try and deal with the seller much more than to have the buyer call him and see if he can get the guy to shit some more parts. And I will make a 3rd trip across town to pic them up.
Just wondering what some of you others who have been in similar situations would do.
Is the buyer screwed and should take his lumps?
Is the seller responsible for refunding any of the purchase price or getting some of the promised parts in the deal?
Did someone abscond with the parts when they were lying around who know's how many places? and therefore no one is to blame?
Last edited by keifernet on Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76948 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Long is not the word.
I think you should report back to the buyer what you know and let him deal with the seller.
Since you were not a party to the transaction and did not testify to the condition of the car and parts, it's the buyer's problem.
This is a perfect example of the saying "no good deed goes unpunished". _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
Long is not the word.
I think you should report back to the buyer what you know and let him deal with the seller.
Since you were not a party to the transaction and did not testify to the condition of the car and parts, it's the buyer's problem.
This is a perfect example of the saying "no good deed goes unpunished". |
LOL, thanks Glenn... I have seen longer posts though, that george4888 sure can rattle along. At least my story has some continuity!
I already have talked to the buyer... but now I have to call him and tell him that what was supposed to be there on this second run... did not materialize. |
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TimGud Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2002 Posts: 6459 Location: Rio Rico Arizona
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately this is why you (buyer) must look at the VW before buying. I NEVER buy a car without inspecting it first for some of the reasons you listed wrong with this vert. One mans idea of fairly complete VW with alot of parts can differ a hell of alot from anothers! Being the man in the middle all you can do is give him an inventory of the parts there and missing and it's kinda up to him to work it out with the buyer, but it's alittle late for that now that the cash has changed hands. Best of luck to him. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76948 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Sometime when you try to help out, you get caught in the middle. But it's still worth helping others. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I am going to make a few bucks doing the work, and I will work with him on getting what I can from the seller and out of my stash and will help locate what I can for him good used and get him any hookup I can on the new stuff. |
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EvilBus Samba Art Critic
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 1523 Location: Texas Damnit!
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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This could get nasty, especially if the car has been hacked. I'd say "look, the car isn't all that workable." You may get some money out of the deal but I don't think the amount of time you'll have to invest, no mention trapesing across town on parts hunts, is worth your time. It's your call, but make sure the buyer knows what you have to work with and you need ot level set his expectations for delivery. Otherwise he may be looking at you asking, "what's wrong with my car, why didn't you fix it?" _________________ - JHC de Tejas - |
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mattsvdub Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2004 Posts: 366 Location: Goodrich Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Tough situation their...
But I agree w/Glenn to a certain extent.
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Sometime when you try to help out, you get caught in the middle. But it's still worth helping others. |
I help out all others including strangers whenever I can but draw the line when it either:
A. effects my health (too Stressfull or Dangerous) or
B. Has a negative impact on my family as they are most important.
I think what your doing is admirable Keifer, as allot of people out their would have just washed their hands of the deal and walked away leaving the unfortunate buyer alone and hanging. If your still willing to get this car up and on the road I think your going about it the right way.
Just lay out all that was actually there and let the buyer contact and work it out with the seller, Your customer is paying you for VW work not to be a Thug or Henchmen.
That seller seems to be a little shady anyhow. I'd say the sooner the buyer accepts he got screwed and moves on the better off all will be..
I hope he can get squeeze some justice in there though.. |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9481 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: very gritty deal. |
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Hey Mr. Keif...tough is not the wod.
What you are doing is very admirable. I have been in a similar situation like that...once. I never seem to learn my lesson everytime. But I think the reward is known only to the God.
You are saying in you mind.."this guy is in for a good one if you do not help him." But to help him is to go out on a limb. Tough call Keifer. A lot of people would probably buckle.
I helped someone one time with a broken tranny. He really did not have the money right away. I built it for no money...zip. Some months passed and he came back with $300 and 12 more trannies...whole trannies. You just never know guys. I have made a friend.
YOu can't go wrong doing the right thing Keifer. It makes you a better person when you do.
Just my thoughts man. The call is ultimately yours.
regards to all. NSR. |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posts so far... keep them coming.
I would like to say that I am doing this job for a fee and I will make some money, that is not the problem. But it could be if his budget is shot due to missing parts means he may not be able to pay me for what I will have to do with the car to make it drivable. (I'm worried about the engine now... won't know until I can check it out but I am the kinda guy who doesn't trust what I can't see.. compression test good or not... this guy will be expecting to drive it back to OK from here. Of course I am not responsible for that either... )
I don't feel it is as admirable as you guys are making it out to be... I have done my fair share of "charity work" over the years and I still go out of my way to help some folks depending on the situation I might be in at the time. Sometimes you get the shorter end of the stick in some respects but that is really a whole separate subject.
I did not start this thread to get any props, just to let people know to beware of such situations if they are buying any car/project.
I also wanted to know if others would be more inclined to keep trying to deal with the seller and the other guy who had the parts stored to try and get the rest of the parts ( if they exist) or let it go, let the buyer do it, and or let the buyer decide if he even wants to deal with it, or accept the situation for what it is and move on.
I will be taking a bunch of pics of the car and what parts came with it and posting them in the gallery for the buyer to see. And I will keep posting on how this progresses. |
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mattsvdub Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2004 Posts: 366 Location: Goodrich Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:48 am Post subject: |
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My personal opinion is to take many photos and document everything as completely as possible. Keep "your" customer well informed and always make certain he understands that he is the one ultimately responsible for dealing with the previous owner of the car and parts. You are a third party observer thats picking up parts somebody else paid for and then assembling those parts for a fee.
In this crazy world of today you don't know if the guy who sold him the parts is sane or crazy and if you end up in an arguement or get personally involved over the whole deal he could do something we hate to read about.
Stay as neutral as possible... I think your doing your Karma a great benefit.. |
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Jessica Samba Chat Whore
Joined: June 07, 2003 Posts: 1160 Location: Clinton, Iowa
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I would definitely keep the buyer informed of everything you find out (if anything). Let him deal with the seller and the guy that has the parts though. He is the buyer, afterall. You are just there to pick the parts up for him. It's kind of shady that not all of the parts that were promised are there now. Have the buyer call up the seller and see what he can do about the situation and then let you know what you should do as far as picking up more parts or what-not. If you don't want to be the middle man, then don't (at least try not to be!). Just be careful how you go about all this..it could get pretty messy... _________________ VW-less right now...looking
-OGST-
RIP HBB
RIP RW
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MrBreeze: The snorklestang has no history. It was here before time began. Jesus himself drove that to high school |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69830 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it's your responsibility to do anything in regards to the original deal except pick stuff up. If there are parts missing, report what is there back to the buyer. With photos of what you do have, if possible. It's up to him to get the seller to either provide all the parts that were agreed upon or get some sort of refund.
Once everything is taken care of between the buyer and the seller and you have everything you are going to get, then you can start on whatever work you agreed to do. If there are parts missing and it is not possible for you to complete your work without the buyer spending additional money, the buyer should have the opportunity to back out of your deal and arrange to get the the car transported. It might be a good idea for him to compensate you for the time or gas you spent. It depends whether you think that is justified based on what you have done so far.
It's tough being in the middle, I think any honest person starts to get worried about their reputation if things don't go exactly as they should have. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
I don't think it's your responsibility to do anything in regards to the original deal except pick stuff up. If there are parts missing, report what is there back to the buyer. With photos of what you do have, if possible. It's up to him to get the seller to either provide all the parts that were agreed upon or get some sort of refund.
Once everything is taken care of between the buyer and the seller and you have everything you are going to get, then you can start on whatever work you agreed to do. If there are parts missing and it is not possible for you to complete your work without the buyer spending additional money, the buyer should have the opportunity to back out of your deal and arrange to get the the car transported. It might be a good idea for him to compensate you for the time or gas you spent. It depends whether you think that is justified based on what you have done so far.
It's tough being in the middle, I think any honest person starts to get worried about their reputation if things don't go exactly as they should have. |
Exactly.. thanks Everett... |
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Foxx Uncle Meat
Joined: August 27, 2001 Posts: 4897 Location: at the computer,.......DUH!
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:30 am Post subject: |
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i don't have alot of stuff ,but your welcome to anything i have
keifernet.
sorry you got caught in the middle of a screwup _________________ Frank
OG JHC
59 panel
Sarcasm is the body's natural defense against stupidity. i seem to use a lot. |
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TimGud Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2002 Posts: 6459 Location: Rio Rico Arizona
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Don't even ask about, and stay away from my parts stash!!!! |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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TimGud wrote: |
Don't even ask about, and stay away from my parts stash!!!! |
Yeah... like you have a whorde of late model fat chick parts Tim... |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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If it were me, I'd take everyone for every dollar I could and then lie low in the Caribbean for a while smoking Cuban cigars. Then again, that's just me _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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bljones Resident Wit
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 2377 Location: ontario canada
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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essentially, you are not a middleman in this transaction, but a restorer. you provided a quote to the buyer based on the info he provided to you about what parts were included, and what his goal was. If parts are missing, it's not your fault, or your problem. Report to the buyer what is missing, what is usable, and a revised quote of what needs to be done to meet the buyer's needs, BEFORE you do anything. Then let the buyer and seller sort it out between them. it's not your repsonsibility to go treasure hunting. _________________ OG JHC
Author of Original Rant #1
"It stingd itself to dead... now that is control on you"
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Finally done with my out of town work schedule... I will be getting the inventory of what is there and what may be considered "missing" that was supposed to be part of the deal. I spoke with the purchaser and he will make an attempt to contact the seller and see if there is anything else the guy can do.
Then we will see what all he needs to get. Thanks for the help everyone. |
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