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koolmoe
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 382
Location: Annapolis, MD
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: Gas line, pinhole |
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Cleaning up the bus for the Spring. Drove it out of the driveway and heard an odd noise. Parked, looked, see a fine mist spraying down near the right-rear wheel well. Touch and sniff...gas. Crap.
I think this T junction is where it's coming from, somewhere very close to one of the clamps:
I do not have the time nor equipment to replace all lines. I may be able to replace this one (I think it's the one from the left of the T to the engine, seems about a foot long?)
If I can replace this one, then I can drive it to someone who can replace them all (which will be some local shop unless someone somewhat local to me wants to take on the project!)
So two questions:
1. What's this line? I can buy a new piece specifically (Van Cafe?) or just the entire fuel line replacement kit - either way, but which particular line is this.
(assuming I took a picture of the correct lines!)
2. If I can wiggle under the bus (I have small ramps, gives me about 1 foot clearance) and get to this line...am I going to get drenched in gas? Is the line typically under pressure? Have a...cork or something at the ready? Or a way to clamp-off the line before I disconnect?
And any other guidance anyone can provide.
Thanks!
KM
(I'm getting tired of this old gal, unfortunately, just too many things to keep up with. After this being added to the list of fixes, I think this will be the last summer  )
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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Not sure where this leak is you speak of, and it sounds like your not sure either. If you dont have the tools or knowledge to do this job, it might be best to have the van towed to a shop and have it done. if the hoses are original, it is probably best to have them all replaced. get referance so you pick a shop that knows how to do this.
make sure they used lined hose such as SAE 30R9 hose. 5/16 inch fits. make sure injection rated clamls are used. make sure they also replace the injector hoses. and eliminate the plastic bulkhead fitting above the bell housing area. also amkes sure the vacuum hkse on the fuel pressjre regulator is replaced and clamped on both ends. doing these things will reduce your leak and fire risk a great deal.
if you have identified the leaky hose, replace it with 30R9 hose 5/16 th inch, and use injection rated (non perforated) clamps. this stuff is avIlable at many auto parts stores. dont use 30R7 hose.
good luck
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| koolmoe wrote: |
I think this T junction is where it's coming from, somewhere very close to one of the clamps:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1493068
am I going to get drenched in gas? Is the line typically under pressure? Have a...cork or something at the ready? Or a way to clamp-off the line before I disconnect?
(I'm getting tired of this old gal, unfortunately, just too many things to keep up with. After this being added to the list of fixes, I think this will be the last summer ) |
The portion of fuel system between fuel pump outlet and fuel return hose (basically what you might work on), is under pressure when engine running but will retain that pressure for a period of time after engine off, and will get back up to pressure even if you turn the key to ignition on but don't start the engine. When engine is shut down, that portion of fuel system normally retains pressure for at least 20 minutes or much longer. In your case, that pressure will get relieved due to the leak. So if you wait a while, removing a hose may not cause a spray of fuel. Either way, safety first right? Make sure the engine is COLD, batteries disconnected, before doing fuel system work. And, there are clamps made for pinching off fuel hoses. Harbour Frieght?
Hard to judge this via the internet, but unless you want to spend time reading up on and learning how to do this job properly, I'd say don't do it. That said, I never thought I'd do even 80% of what I do on my Vanagons. 
I'd think most or all folks here understand your sentiment re: work required, but for what it's worth, the fuel line replacement job is to be expected. i.e. on any Vanagon, it's nearly a basic maintenance item. Ironically, it's one of those jobs some owners avoid or don't even know about. I'm amazed to see buses running around with the OEM hoses at each injector (there's a metal ring on those). I'd imagine that some injectors are dealership replacement parts but from what I've seen, those sections of hose usually look really old.
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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ps wear safety glasses,and do the work on the fuel system outside away from ignition sources. ditto on what above poster said, if you got a leak, the pressure should be relieved after given enough time. do not drive the van with leak on it dont even start it. have a fire extingusher handy when doing fuel work also. and wear feuel resistant gloves. gaso.ine on the skin can be bad if left for long, it will be abosrbed by the body. rinse with cold water if exposed.
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Dana Champion
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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I had a similar situation. One of my fuel lines was leaking on top of the engine.It was dripping on the ground. It had a pin hole in it. I decided to replace all the fuel lines in the engine compartment. The original lines actually looked good.It looked like the hose had been punctured.I got the kit from gowesty, with the upgraded fuel line, correct clamps, firewall connection eliminate, and a pair of crimpers for the clamps. I did the job myself, and found it both easy and rather rewarding, as I gained more knowledge of the fuel system. I took my time, inspected the old fuel lines, as I used them for templates for the new lines, replacing them one by one. I also cleaned the engine electrical grounds while I was there, etc.
I know sometimes we have more time than money, and visa versa. You may want to consider doing the task yourself. I'm sure if you have patience, and are careful, you will do as good a job as anyone, if you're at all mechanically inclined.
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| koolmoe wrote: |
Touch and sniff...gas. Crap.
I think this T junction is where it's coming from, somewhere very close to one of the clamps:
[pic] |
I realize your nose may have smelled gas, but your photo shows, to my eyes, coolant hoses... specifically, the heater hoses. The supply fuel line runs up through the firewall (plastic tubing into rubber hose via the firewall coupler), as does the return hose. The only T-fitting in the fuel system, if I'm remembering right, is near the oil breather tower on top of the engine.
So, if it is indeed gas leaking, look good and hard at where it's actually coming from. Gas leaks are bad... get it fixed pronto (if that's what's leaking).
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
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2016 Golf GTI S
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| koolmoe wrote: |
Touch and sniff...gas. Crap.
I think this T junction is where it's coming from, somewhere very close to one of the clamps:
[pic] |
I realize your nose may have smelled gas, but your photo shows, to my eyes, coolant hoses... specifically, the heater hoses. The supply fuel line runs up through the firewall (plastic tubing into rubber hose via the firewall coupler), as does the return hose. The only T-fitting in the fuel system, if I'm remembering right, is near the oil breather tower on top of the engine.
So, if it is indeed gas leaking, look good and hard at where it's actually coming from. Gas leaks are bad... get it fixed pronto (if that's what's leaking). |
I have know Idea where this fuel line Tee fitting is under the van, I only recall the tee fitting near the regulator, that has the test port. maybe he has fuel dripping from above onto the heater hoses. them do appear inn the photograph to be heater hoses, kind of fat looking for fuel hoses.
does the original poster have a gasoline heater maybe???
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erdonline
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Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: CT
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| koolmoe wrote: |
Touch and sniff...gas. Crap.
I think this T junction is where it's coming from, somewhere very close to one of the clamps:
[pic] |
I realize your nose may have smelled gas, but your photo shows, to my eyes, coolant hoses... specifically, the heater hoses. The supply fuel line runs up through the firewall (plastic tubing into rubber hose via the firewall coupler), as does the return hose. The only T-fitting in the fuel system, if I'm remembering right, is near the oil breather tower on top of the engine.
So, if it is indeed gas leaking, look good and hard at where it's actually coming from. Gas leaks are bad... get it fixed pronto (if that's what's leaking). |
It looks like the fuel line tee on top of the engine to me.
Ed
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CanStan
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Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 1038
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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I agree with Kamzcab. There shouldn't normally be anywhere under there where the fuel line T's like that. It should be one line from the fuel filter all the way to the engine. Also those clamps seem like coolant hose clamps vs fuel line clamps.
I would suggest putting a container of some sort under the pin hole. Have someone turn the key, but not start the van. You will hear the fuel pump cycle, pressurizing the fuel system. This should cause fuel to spray out if that is the issue.
Most likely though, you will need them to start the engine, and see if that makes the line leak. If it does at that point, I would expect that to be coolant. As long as it's safe to do so, allow a little to pour into your container. Have a look at your coolant overflow bottle- is it pink? Green? Yellow? Is your leaking fluid the same color? That might help you with your answer.
Hopefully this will put you on the right track! |
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| erdonline wrote: |
It looks like the fuel line tee on top of the engine to me.
Ed |
I see part of the transmission, part of a CV joint and part of one of the plastic water pipes that run back to front in that photograph, I do not see the top of the motor.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
I realize your nose may have smelled gas, but your photo shows, to my eyes, coolant hoses... specifically, the heater hoses. The supply fuel line runs up through the firewall (plastic tubing into rubber hose via the firewall coupler), as does the return hose. The only T-fitting in the fuel system, if I'm remembering right, is near the oil breather tower on top of the engine.
So, if it is indeed gas leaking, look good and hard at where it's actually coming from. Gas leaks are bad... get it fixed pronto (if that's what's leaking). |
Good catch. My bad for not following up on my first thought; "spring clamps?" I don't recall ever seeing those on fuel lines.
I'd think that IF the OP has a gas heater, the "T" would be further up front near the fuel pump. At least this is what I recall seeing recently on another persons bus. And I seem to recall less these days.
Neil.
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
| erdonline wrote: |
It looks like the fuel line tee on top of the engine to me.
Ed |
I see part of the transmission, part of a CV joint and part of one of the plastic water pipes that run back to front in that photograph, I do not see the top of the motor. |
^Exactly.
This is the fuel line T (pressure bleeder), where no fat coolant pipe and CV are in sight:
(^Borrowed photo... my van's engine is nowhere near that filthy!  )
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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koolmoe
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Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 382
Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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Great stuff. Love this community (I used to be a lot more active here, nice to be back and still find the love  .
I noticed this leak a week or so ago, just hadn't had time to post about it. I may misremember where the leak is coming from. Great point about it maybe not being gas. I'll recheck this afternoon, put a container under and pressurize the system/pump, see if it leaks and what it actually is.
And will try to get better picts of where it's coming from.
My coolant is green...
No gas heater, but good thought!
I don't have a good shop nearby to tow it to, unfortunately. Best is a long tow...I'd rather try to replace at least this one line and drive it.
I don't mind trying to replace all lines myself...if I could get to everything from the top, but I really don't want to crawl under the bus on my gravel driveway to replace all the lines underneath
I've had a fire extinguisher in the van as soon as I bought it. It's still pressurized! I checked as soon as I saw that leak.
The elderly lady I bought it (6 yrs ago?) from had no idea if the lines were replaced. A local mechanic checked and said they were fine, but I've always tried to keep an eye on them.
Thanks all!
More later...
KM
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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dobryan
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koolmoe
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Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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Sorry for the delayed response...just no time to dig into this til the weekend hit.
It's definitely a gas leak - the test of just powering the system, not firing the engine, resulted in that spray I saw before...and it's definitely a gas smell too, and collected some in a small tray, it's not green.
So took a bunch of pictures as best I could. I need to get them off the camera and see what maybe looks good. But before I dig in, there's a smaller line running overtop the main frame support, front to back (the frame visible just behind the front wheel. Could that be the gas line?
I'll try to get, clean, and highlight pictures later today/tomorrow.
Actually, maybe this is a good one. Running overtop the frame, circled in yellow...could this be the culprit?
Oh, Dave, thanks for the offer! I can't get to you without fixing this one line first, of course....and I have no good methods here (gravel driveway, small ramps). But if I can get this one done myself, I may very well take you up on your offer!
The bumper I bought from you a couple years ago is still in pretty good shape
KM (erik)
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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koolmoe
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Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 382
Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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Little bump to see if anyone has an insight to the previous post. I'll see if I can get better pictures this weekend...
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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dobryan
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koolmoe
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Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Gas line, pinhole |
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PM sent! Some openings this Sunday to possibly take you up on the kind offer...
edit 4/30: PM sent again, slight change in openings on Sunday if you're available. Otherwise, any other insights as to the size of the gasline is that's in this general area...what should I order to replace it...
If I can find the line and it isn't crazy to get to, I'll replace this one myself so I can get the bus somewhere all the rest can be done (plus brakes, plus some rust concerns, argh).
KM
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
from '95 til 2008: 1995 Pathfinder (frame rusted out, charitable parts donation)
from '91-'95: 1982 Westy Diesel (Smokey. Traded in for far too little!)
from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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