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This fuel pump relay
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Lil Lulu
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:36 am    Post subject: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

Broke a contact off of the fuel pump relay I had on the 72 while removing it and bought this one but the contacts are labeled different than the old one. The contact numbers are 85,86,87, 870 and 30.

Can someone enlighten me as to the connections?



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Please ignore blood and filth Very Happy
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Chochobeef
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

I'm willing to bet its not 870, but a poorly molded "a". Should be no issues if its exactly like the one it replaces.
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jtauxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

Lil' Lulu wrote:
Please ignore blood and filth Very Happy

That's funny. I was just thinking how your fingers look like my fingers these days...
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

That's a generic SPDT relay. The normal 'fuel pump relay' has terminals 30, 87, 15, 31, and 31a. It connects to the ignition points signal and has circuitry that only closes the relay contacts when the engine is running.

Wiring:

30 - +12 from battery
87 - power to fuel pump

15 - +12 from coil (term 15)
31 - ground

31a - points signal from coil (term 1)
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
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More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

both your bays are carbed which means they were mechanical fuel pumps originally. If you have a relay on either of these carbed buses it is aftermarket. You need to look carefully how it is wired to be sure the last person didn't do something non-standard. Electricity gives very little warning when it cooks things.
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Lil Lulu
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

So Telford, are you saying this relay is not going to work? The old relay I put on myself wired it according to your instructions. Could not find one like it.

Hope to find out how to wire this one. Currently wired straight from coil to fuel pump.
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'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus

'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002

'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

That relay will lighten the load on the ignition switch, but the fuel pump will still rune whenever the key is on, a real fuel pump relay is triggered by either points pulses, the charge light, oil light or airflow if FI.

Coil 15 to 85 on relay
ground 86
battery to 30 (fused)
pump to 87
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Fuel pump relay wiring Reply with quote

To link to this thread
Code:
[url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8076149#8076149]Fuel pump relay wiring[/url]


Ford inertia switch wiring diagram
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-insta...%20diagram
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321 906 059 C Electric fuel Safety relay
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Tcash


Last edited by Tcash on Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:49 am; edited 5 times in total
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jtauxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

I believe this is what you are looking for...
http://www.busdepot.com/321906059c
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"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus
, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

Preferred relay coil connections (compatible with diode-protected relay coils):
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_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

Lil' Lulu wrote:
So Telford, are you saying this relay is not going to work? The old relay I put on myself wired it according to your instructions. Could not find one like it.

Hope to find out how to wire this one. Currently wired straight from coil to fuel pump.

You can make it work - use one of Tcash's two schematics above. It will work differently than your current relay, however.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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Rubber Duck
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

jtauxe wrote:
I believe this is what you are looking for...
http://www.busdepot.com/321906059c


I believe that was what I was looking for ages ago when the only option at that time was the rabbit relay from a junkyard.

In the end I went with two relays. Not very complicated and still runs fine till this day.
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
Preferred relay coil connections (compatible with diode-protected relay coils):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This diagram: is the yellow 12V from the coil the "hot" or the ignition (pulsed)/tach signal? As illustrated here, I'm thinking it's the "hot" from switched ignition. But if this is true, doesn't this configuration represent the undesirable condition of leaving a fuel pump energized in a crash? Other possibility (just thinking out loud), this is largely for the standard "Bosch type" relay for general purposes, and not desirable for a fuel pump installation.
I'm trying to edjumucate myself for a couple of installations upcoming. I'm pretty much settled on the Revolution FP controller, with its 3-second prime function, and pulsed tach signal energization, but an understanding of this one is ideal as well.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
This diagram: is the yellow 12V from the coil the "hot" or the ignition (pulsed)/tach signal? As illustrated here, I'm thinking it's the "hot" from switched ignition. But if this is true, doesn't this configuration represent the undesirable condition of leaving a fuel pump energized in a crash?

Correct. To get some crash protection, yellow would need to connect to the blue wire at the alternator or alternator regulator. When the alternator is producing output, the relay will energize. Downside: if the charging system fails, the engine will quit from lack of fuel.

Quote:
Other possibility (just thinking out loud), this is largely for the standard "Bosch type" relay for general purposes, and not desirable for a fuel pump installation.
I'm trying to edjumucate myself for a couple of installations upcoming. I'm pretty much settled on the Revolution FP controller, with its 3-second prime function, and pulsed tach signal energization, but an understanding of this one is ideal as well.

Looks similar to the Rabbit FP controller, with add'l features. Probably a better choice than a plain relay.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: This fuel pump relay Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
Busstom wrote:
This diagram: is the yellow 12V from the coil the "hot" or the ignition (pulsed)/tach signal? As illustrated here, I'm thinking it's the "hot" from switched ignition. But if this is true, doesn't this configuration represent the undesirable condition of leaving a fuel pump energized in a crash?

Correct. To get some crash protection, yellow would need to connect to the blue wire at the alternator or alternator regulator. When the alternator is producing output, the relay will energize. Downside: if the charging system fails, the engine will quit from lack of fuel.

Quote:
Other possibility (just thinking out loud), this is largely for the standard "Bosch type" relay for general purposes, and not desirable for a fuel pump installation.
I'm trying to edjumucate myself for a couple of installations upcoming. I'm pretty much settled on the Revolution FP controller, with its 3-second prime function, and pulsed tach signal energization, but an understanding of this one is ideal as well.

Looks similar to the Rabbit FP controller, with add'l features. Probably a better choice than a plain relay.

Thanks for clarifying. I can't wait to get my hands on some of these gadgets and put them to work.
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