RMW Engine Carrier with Subaru transaxle questions

[keithwwalker]

OK, so I just received a Subaru 6 speed transaxle TY756 cable shift. This is getting installed in my DOKA with a Subaru engine.

I did a quick measurement on the VW and Subaru transaxles, from end of bellhousing to centerline of axles. It seems that the Subaru dimension is 2 inches less.

So will there be a different CV joint length if using the RMW engine carrier?

Also with the RMW engine carrier, what is the length from the centerline of the engine mounts to the back of the engine bay sheet metal?

From what I know, the RMW engine carrier has no fore-aft adjustment, but it seems so much a better design that the SmallCar design.

Thanks for the help.
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1983.5 Doka

[Jac25]

I want to do 5spd ty754 in my 85 westy and currently have a KEP cradle. I emailed David Clymer about about it and he stated the kep cradle would have to be moved forward an 1 inch. He theorised that cutting the crossbar from the supports and moving the bar forward would do the trick. Not sure what the rmw cradle looks like or the overall legnth of 6spd vs the 5spd but it's probably going to take some fabricating.

Also, the vw transmission input shaft sits to the right about 10mm i think and the subaru input shaft sits centerline. That means that currently our conversions sit to the right to match the transmission. Now the engine must be moved over to the centerline.

Lots of good info here

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=40

Hopefully, David will chime in and clear things up.

[wasserbox]

<<Deleted due to outdated informatnion>>

[D Clymer]

The RMW carrier bar actually is compatible with the Subaru 5 speed conversion. When I delivered my first series of kits I had only done conversions using the Smallcar mount and had not been able to check fitment with the RMW carrier bar. It's tough to get exact fore and aft engine placement benchmarks since there are so many variables and it looked to me like the RMW bar would put the engine too far back. I had talked with RMW about developing a special version of their bar to be compatible with the ideal Subaru 5 speed mounting position.

At the time I developed the first revisions to the kit, I was finally able to check fitment of the kit with the RMW bar and it turned out the Subaru 5 speed when mounted with my kit works perfectly with the standard RMW bar. Quite a few of my customers are now running conversions with RMW bars.

That's good news for the 5 speed Subaru conversion. But the 6 speed cable shifted box will present some new challenges. The location of the cable levers on that transmission makes it necessary to leave that transmission full length or nearly full length. This will require the transmission to sit further back, which will cause a problem with the placement of the RMW carrier bar. It would be possible to modify the RMW bar to mount the engine further back. It can't be simply slid backwards due to how/where it attaches to the frame, but modifications could be made on the engine mount pads on the bar itself to adjust engine placement.

For this kind of a transmission placement, the drive axles will have to be longer than what I've come up with for the Subaru 5 speed conversion (two short automatic axles), but it is possible the standard manual transmission axles would do the trick.

Dave

[keithwwalker]

FWIW, I am waiting on Todd @Subarugears to let me know how the fit up would be with the RMW engine carrier, and his Vanagon transmission mount.

Todd @Subarugears is modifying the Vanagon transmission mount for a better fit. He didn't get into specifics with me.

Would be nice if the trans mount is slotted to allow for adjustment, and then keyed in somehow.

David, I read your thread about all the work you have performed with the 5 speed, but I don't know how much of that translates to the 6 speed with cable shift.

FWIW, I just received my Subarugears conversion, and will be using the Subaplate, which will remove some 5.5 inches from the nose of the transmission.

Even then, the TY756 split cases are about 26 inches long. The VW transaxle is about 24 inches long.

Sounds like I will have to call RMW, and find out, I wish they had some online documentation or even an email address.

Regarding the shifting cables, there are a lot of possibilities....to be continued.


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1983.5 Doka

[D Clymer]

[keithwwalker]

David

Thanks for your information. Your info sounds spot on.
I took some more measurements with a tape measure (on my back), so if anyone has better data, please chime in.

I think the Subaru engine and TY756 subaru transaxle will be a very tight fit, if the RMW engine carrier keeps the same fore-aft datum where the existing VW engine and transaxle meet. A custom transaxle nose mount will be required regardless.

I will check with RMW this coming week on the fore-aft question. It would make sense that they would do design their carrier that way, such that if you put in a Subaru engine and keep the VW transaxle, the transaxle would stay in the same fore-aft location, and you wouldn't have to change out the axles.

So the dimensions I am coming up with:

VW transaxle: ~23.5 inches (does someone have an out of vehicle dimension in inch or mm?)
Gap from nose of VW transaxle to back side of crossmember: ~3 inches
Subaru Transaxle: 26 inches (with center differential case removed)
Subarugears Subaplate (for 2WD conversion): 12mm
Subarugears Shift plug (fits on end of Subaplate): 30mm

Photos:
Good underview of the VW transaxle nose mount (transaxle toward bottom of photo)

Here's my measurement of the distance from the nose of the VW transaxle to the front of the mount that connects to the chassis, it is 3 inches, +/-1/8". The steel plate of the mount wraps up around the chassis rail on the front and back and takes up some space. (nose of transaxle to the right of photo)

Here is the Subaplate, it goes on the end of the rear transmission case (you remove the center differential case), the shift rod plug is upper left

If you add up the dimensions, you will see that the shift plug will be interfering with the crossmember. With this particular gearbox, the plug doesn't have to be 30mm thick, it could probably be shaved down by half, since the shift rod protrudes from the gearbox (with the center diff housing removed) by about 25mm. (subaplate 12mm plus. There would still be an interference with the crossmember though)

My transmission came with a mount that is at the nose of the transaxle and under. This is different than the VW mound which is on the nose. I will probably be able to keep both the VW rubber mount, and the Subaru nose mount and have a custom transition piece between them.

To be continued....
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1983.5 Doka

[furrylittleotter]

It's nice to see more posts concerning the fitment of Subaru transaxles.

Concerning the engine cradles; They all mount to the flat boxed-in section of unibody so it is relatively easy to slide them fore and aft and drill new holes as needed.

Concerning the axles, when I mounted my Subaru 4eat transaxle (fwd) I used cv adaptor plates and Burley's axle kit (930), I simply cut the axles down a bit (7/16"?) and made a new groove on the end for the retaining ring.

It could not have been simpler.

Looking forward to more progress.

Neil2

[keithwwalker]

For the Axles I just got the stub axles from Subarugears, and CV flanges for the 930 size.

Taking apart my transaxle now, it won't shift into 5th, 6th, or reverse -very pissed off right now that someone would sell this and say it shifts fine.
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1983.5 Doka

[D Clymer]

[keithwwalker]

David,

To make it a bit clearer, here is the dimensional comparison, with the datum being the join between the VW engine and transaxle (1.9, I assume the 2.1 is the same):

VW Transaxle + gap from transaxle to crossmember = 23.5 +3 inches = 26.5 inches

Subaru transaxle + Subarugears Subaplate + Subarugears shift plug = 26.0 inches + 12mm + 30mm = 27.65 inches (or about 26.5 inches without the plug)

The shift shaft in this cable shifted gearbox is angled exactly like the older 5 speeds that use a linkage. It is bushed on both sides. It ends at the rear case, even sticks out a 1-3mm. Still probably 10mm could be cut from the shaft, and then only about 15mm would protrude. Then the shift cover could be very thin if the shaft is cut down.

Another concern if the Subaru transaxle is to be mounted as far forward as possible is that the sheetmetal above the crossmember starts to slope backward.

The nose of the Subaru TY756 is about 9-10 inches in height.

More measurements & photos this week.
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1983.5 Doka

[xoo00oox]

[keithwwalker]

I will find out tonight if the transmission can be rebuilt or not. When I unpacked it, I found the clutch friction discs were gone and only the fiberglass backers were left - paper thin wafers - ridiculous.
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1983.5 Doka

[keithwwalker]

Incremental update: I believe the cable shifter was way out of alignment (and broken), so I could not get the full range of motion on the left right motion when the shifter was hooked up to the transaxle.

I also called RMW, they stated they had no plans to modify their enginer carrier design, they don't know if it will work with a Subaru transaxle, though they do have a Subaru engine/transaxle install coming up in their shop. I asked that they call me with an update as to whether it would fit. I don't know if or when that will happen.

My plan is to continue my transaxle work conversion, and start a build thread to document my foibles and frustrations. I plan on buying a RMW cradle, and will modify if I have to - it is the simplest support system out there.

Regarding the transaxle mount, I haven't seen photos of David's design, but I think that with a 6 speed cable shift, I will have to come up with a custom underslung mount.

My transaxle came with an undernose mount that will provide a template for the bolting pattern.

Thanks
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1983.5 Doka