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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 597
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Has anyone ever made OR could anyone make me a font using the "3d" script of 1980's vws. Example 3rd down on left "VANAGON or TRANSPORTER" in below image. Ive found "3d" script pictures of most of the alaphabet- jetta, fox, golf, vanagon, caravelle, transporter, passat, quantum, multivan, weekender, carat.
After seven years of operating a repair shop specializing in vanagons its time for a website. And I really really want it to feature this font.
I'd be happy to compensate in whatever way necessary to get this done!
Thanks, Josh & Reference Automotive
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Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10351
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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I owned a company decades ago and it required access to corporate fonts for the manuals. I distinctly remember VW being among the pickiest and we had to sign forms promising not to allow the logos and special VW font out of our hands. So, be cautious or you may get a letter after all your work. Like all multinationals, they have staffs of people monitoring for their copyrighted stuff and they have to do it to preserve their rights.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8299
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Spacing isn't perfect, but this is the typeface/font you want and can download (not mine, found it on VWVortex): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwjyAQ4AbFZpRWZJOERwczNwYWM/view?pli=1 . Serpentine Sans/ICG Bold are not the VW font, but are quite similar.
Doug, copyright for the old fonts ran out long ago, hence "VAG Rounded" coming preinstalled on my laptop. Also, dozens of web sites around the world are using the old fonts, particularly the "Mark Two" font linked above. 
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 597
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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well that was certainly a swift reminder of why I pretty much left foruming here and at the same time what a resource this can be. Thanks so much kamzcab86, thats exactly what i was looking for! I'd been searching for hours, guess i didnt have my terms quite right. If you're ever in bellingham and need anything- like a refreshing beverage or a break from the van in a well appointed guest house- you'll be welcome.
_________________
Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| copyright for the old fonts ran out long ago, hence "VAG Rounded" coming preinstalled on my laptop. Also, dozens of web sites around the world are using the old fonts, particularly the "Mark Two" font linked above. |
copyrights last at least 70 years and up to about 120 if not renewed, so I am unclear on your stmt
the OP needs to be very careful as his business assets could be at risk here
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8299
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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| Merian wrote: |
| copyrights last at least 70 years and up to about 120 if not renewed, so I am unclear on your stmt |
Did some digging: Typefaces cannot be copyrighted in the USA. Do not confuse a typeface with a trademarked typeface-based logo, such as Coca-Cola. Your next question will be, "But isn't VANAGON considered a typeface logo?" It could be, but VW let the Vanagon model name trademark die years back. Additionally, the "Mark Two" typeface linked to is not the original, it is a copycat typeface created by someone other than VW who put it in the public domain, which is legal to do.
As I said, many businesses and web sites are using old VW typefaces without issue, including the "Mark Two" (not to mention the Westfalia typeface) and have for years. VAG Rounded, a typeface VW developed, was put into the public domain in the late 1980s.
If the OP is scared off from using "Mark Two", then use Serpentine.
Now, if we were talking about using VW's logos and other trademarked images on your site or for your business, it'd be an altogether different story.
_________________
~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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scottz
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008
Posts: 477
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Where is your shop located?
Reference Automotive? I don't think I've heard of this shop and I've been V-dubin in Bellingham for a while…
Please tell us more!  |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 597
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Stop by sometime and you can see for yourself! We operate cooperatively and welcome people into the shop. Im josh, the owner and work with my partner Jason. We range from repair and routine maintenance to restoration and repowering of all matter of vehicles- especially vanagons. We're referred clients by the best german shops in town- keith cox autobahn, harmony motors, johns repair, roger jobs volkswagen. We're tucked away in an alley (google map "subaru drive bellingham") accessible off kentucky or valencia st, minutes from the new kulshan. physical address is 2114 verona. [/img]
_________________
Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Josh - I'd say be careful about a font. Some comments are confused about the law. Just because you don't use it for your business does not mean you escape liability.
Also, VW is likely to start looking for cash pretty quick here...
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scottz
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008
Posts: 477
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Josh,
Thanks for the heads up. I know right where that is. I will come check you guys out soon! |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Tecchnically... the Vanaong logo is not a "font"
Why the distinction?.. you ask?
A "font" would be an entire alphabet of letters.. as well, the numbers and several special characters and punctuation entities.
What you are asking for is a font that resembles a "logo" style.
Logos are often stylized fonts.. made unique enough from any copyrighted font so as not to be easily copied or having to pay licensing fees.. You also want your logo to be fresh and different.
Many fonts are public domain in this day and age of easy publishing from any desktop.. but back in the day, you would pay a licensing fee to use a specific font in any publication.. magazine, newspaper.. or in advertising, posters, etc.
A logo (such as the "VANAGON") is also copyrighted.. and companies protect logos with much more energy than do the companies that own fonts.
You could try writing VW for special permission to use a "VANAGON" stylized font.. but I'd not hold my breath..
They have very little to gain.. and a lot to lose by lending out their hard earned identity.
Imagine if they lent out "VANAGON" to a shop that is then busted for cooking meth?
Yeah.. Its not going to happen.
You betcha.. I m a LOT of fun at parties.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
Did some digging: Typefaces cannot be copyrighted in the USA. |
"In the US and in some other countries, the digital instantiation of the shapes as vector outlines may be protected by copyright on the computer code that produces them. The name of a typeface may also be protected as a trademark."
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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In the spirit of all things "American"  , change one or two little details of whatever it is that you want to poach and than call it your own 
It is done every day of the week. |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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you CAN indeed change it enough to make it ok to use
Best is to change it some and then make it odd & funny - you* can then claim it is a commentary or farce
* actually, your very high priced IP Attorney
BTW Porsche has been very aggressive at suing or threatening to sue those who have infringed on their IP - such as fonts, trademarks, trade dress, etc. I know some shops who got "caught" even when they likely had the law on their side the prospect of paying attorneys and losing or even winning made them spend thousands to alter various signs, letterhead, etc.
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Yeah.. I was in design school in the early 80s.. pre-desktop computer.
There were designers who retired on nothing but creating original typefaces or fonts.. Its actually a lot of work to designan entire font set.
There were design houses that laid claim to several well-known fonts... and charged handsome fees for thier use
Then the desktop computer arrived.
Originally fonts were very few.. and crappy.
You have to buy "real" fonts.
Eventually, copies were made.. Helvetica (which a publishing firm owned) was overwritten by Arial which was public domain.
A series of lawsuits occurred in the mid 80s and out of it came that decision I reference above.
"Fonts" can not be "copywrited" but the code that creates a font on a computer CAN be copywrited..
Guess who had the better attorneys in those game changing cases....
It was the beginning of the end for the big design houses.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8299
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
Tecchnically... the Vanaong logo is not a "font"
Why the distinction? |
Nor is it a logo. It is a typeface that was used in brochures and on car models across the VW lineup until the early '90s.
The only thing Volkswagen trademarked is the word (ergo model name) of Vanagon ("(1) Typed Drawing" Word Mark). Even if it had been a stylized word trademark, it's still a null point: The filing date for "Vanagon" is October 10, 1979; the cancel date is July 20, 2002. The "Vanagon" trademark once owned by Volkswagen is officially dead according to the USA Trademark Office.
| j_dirge wrote: |
| A logo (such as the "VANAGON") is also copyrighted.. |
The only things listed with the Copyright Office:
Repair manuals for Vanagons
Two songs titled "Vanagon"
A fabric print called "Vanagon lilu"
Volkswagen holds no Vanagon copyright.
| Merian wrote: |
| BTW Porsche has been very aggressive at suing or threatening to sue those who have infringed on their IP - such as fonts, trademarks, trade dress, etc. I know some shops who got "caught" even when they likely had the law on their side the prospect of paying attorneys and losing or even winning made them spend thousands to alter various signs, letterhead, etc. |
Because the Porsche letter'd logo is no different than Coca-Cola's. A typeface was used to create Porsche's letter'd logo; it is that logo that is a registered trademark. Porsche's letter'd logo is listed as "(5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM"; therefore, you would indeed be infringing upon Porsche's trademark by using their logo and their name (and crest for that matter) for your business, or on your web site, without first seeking approval/licensing (unless you are using the name for descriptive purposes).
_________________
~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子
Last edited by kamzcab86 on Tue May 24, 2016 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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Sorry, I think I will pay attention to the attorneys on this. The OP should consult one if in doubt.
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DwarfVader
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2015
Posts: 646
Location: Missoula, MT
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
Tecchnically... the Vanaong logo is not a "font"
Why the distinction? |
Nor is it a logo. It is a typeface that was used in brochures and on car models across the VW lineup until the early '90s.
The only thing Volkswagen trademarked is the word (ergo model name) of Vanagon ("(1) Typed Drawing" Word Mark). Even if it had been a stylized word trademark, it's still a null point: The filing date for "Vanagon" is October 10, 1979; the cancel date is July 20, 2002. The "Vanagon" trademark once owned by Volkswagen is officially dead according to the USA Trademark Office.
| j_dirge wrote: |
| A logo (such as the "VANAGON") is also copyrighted.. |
The only things listed with the Copyright Office:
Repair manuals for Vanagons
Two songs titled "Vanagon"
A fabric print called "Vanagon lilu"
Volkswagen holds no Vanagon copyright.
| Merian wrote: |
| BTW Porsche has been very aggressive at suing or threatening to sue those who have infringed on their IP - such as fonts, trademarks, trade dress, etc. I know some shops who got "caught" even when they likely had the law on their side the prospect of paying attorneys and losing or even winning made them spend thousands to alter various signs, letterhead, etc. |
Because the Porsche letter'd logo is no different than Coca-Cola's. A typeface was used to create Porsche's letter'd logo; it is that logo that is a registered trademark. Porsche's letter'd logo is listed as "(5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM"; therefore, you would indeed be infringing upon Porsche's trademark by using their logo and their name (and crest for that matter) for your business, or on your web site, without first seeking approval/licensing (unless you are using the name for descriptive purposes).
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Sure... I get half done writing up a post about copywrite law, and logos, and branding, and trademark law...
And you beat me to it all.
She's right... about all of it...
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- oderint dum metuant -
I'll find my van someday, or it will find me. |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1751
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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if someone wanted to develop a font from the 'logo' there is no conceivable way that it will be an infringement on any intellectual property. have at it. and disregard the musings of the uninformed replies. kamzcab's post is correct. legally speaking you are free to develop AND trademark the 'vanagon font' even if you call it the 'vanagon font'.
_________________
'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1751
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Graphic Design Major? I Need The Vanagon Font! |
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oh and to answer your original question about using the images on your site:
it will be easier to use jpgs of the artwork than to actually code a font as was pointed out upthread. you can have someone lay out the images of the words you wnat and then use the images instead of text, this way each visitor deosnt have to download an entire special font to view your page.
_________________
'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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