| Author |
Message |
nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
|
 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
 |
|
Blubus, no offense but I have "known" TK since the old gerry server days and then type2 and vanagon.com lists. Ive seen hundreds of his projects. I know him to be a bodywork professional. I also got the same advice from the local bodywork instructor at the tech college when he looked at it. (I may still wait til fall to do the work under his tutelage.)
I too originally thought Id weld it or pay someone to do the same. However, Ive heard enough from the professionals and seen enough including decades old repairs to have confidence in the newer procedures.
TK criticizes half ass measures constantly, as everyone knows, but approves of the glue. Good enough for me.
Also heres a diagram that shows when you can use the glue.
http://3mcollision.com/3m-panel-bonding-adhesive-08115.html
Even some bonds in far more structural areas (rear rockers) are acceptable per 3m.
Blowing through that sheetmetal would be almost a certainty with my limited experience and abilities anyway. Thanks for your inout, friend.
Thank you. I have some or similar (maybe SEM).
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Sat May 14, 2016 11:32 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
Blubus, no offense but I have "known" TK since the old gerry server days and then type2 and vanagon.com lists. Ive seen hundreds of his projects. I know him to be a bodywork professional. I also got the same advice from the local bodywork instructor at the tech college when he looked at it. (I may still wait til fall to do the work under his tutelage.)
I too originally thought Id weld it or pay someone to do the same. However, Ive heard enough from the professionals and seen enough including decades old repairs to have confidence in the newer procedures.
TK criticizes half ass measures constantly, as everyone knows, but approves of the glue. Good enough for me.
Also heres a diagram that shows when you can use the glue.
http://3mcollision.com/3m-panel-bonding-adhesive-08115.html
Even some bonds in far more structural areas (rear rockers) are acceptable per 3m.
Blowing through that sheetmetal would be almost a certainty with my limited experience anyway. Thanks for your inout, friend.; |
well good luck, the 3m website states it is not to be used for rocker panels. no mention of rear rockers to be found.
next time dont waste other peoples time, simply pm terry or your body work instructor for your advice, that would save me time, no sense me helping you if you already have you mind made up.
have fun with your glue.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
http://3mcollision.com/media/collision-images/misc-images/8115_suggestions.gif
Nobodies been wasting any time here but you George.
Click onto this 3-M recomendation picture page.
Take a look at a couple of the pictures of where to weld and where to glue.
Red being weld, blue being adhesive.
What you are misconstruing as a rocker panel is not.
A rocker panel is a separate, and individual piece of structural boxed sheet metal to add integrity to the structure of the vehicle.
The piece in question on any Vanagon is a sheet metal center section of the side of the van.
This gets tied into the portion of the half boxed section on the bottom to tie the side panel to that--nothing more.
Plus--George, and being the master of sheet metal repair as you have been since the 50's, the lower repair section that got stamped out in Bombay probably is getting 8155'ed and tack welded.
The repair will be as strong as the rock of Gibraltar, plus a non-rusting fix because of the 8115.
It will wick towards the heat of the tack weld--guaranteed.
It'll flow right to where it's warm.
_________________
T.K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulli Klinik
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 2079
Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
There may be multiple ways to do this repair correctly, but they all involve welding and they most certainly don't involve glue. The replacement panel needs to be modified at the front end to install as the original did. Not doing so compromises the strength of the B-pillar.
There should be no lap joints as you will never be able to finish the metal. There is no way to not have metal shrink as you weld it. It's physics. The skill lies in knowing how to control it.
Your body-shop instructor is thinking in terms of getting the Bus back on the road with the minimal amount of time which equals $$$ to a body-shop. Long term owners should be focused on doing the repair properly.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
| Bulli Klinik wrote: |
| There may be multiple ways to do this repair correctly, but they all involve welding and they most certainly don't involve glue. The replacement panel needs to be modified at the front end to install as the original did. |
I plan to use fill welds there, where the spot welds were (on the seam near the b pillar, the seam at the rear, and on the bottom).
| Bulli Klinik wrote: |
| Your body-shop instructor is thinking in terms of getting the Bus back on the road with the minimal amount of time which equals $$$ to a body-shop. Long term owners should be focused on doing the repair properly. |
Mehh... I understand the mindset but this guy isn't. I'd expect that from a production shop guy. He is big on getting things perfect, many, many, steps that a production shop would never do.
He is a restoration guy and teaches probably just to get his friends access to the shop a few days a week.
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
I have welded plenty of rockers back together, and this is a rocker panel no misconstruing here. I have plenty of experience welding rocker panels together.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Home Team Van
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2008
Posts: 465
Location: wilmington, nc
|
| Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
You can overlap at the top and it won't be noticeable at all. I put a little seam sealer on the top edge and it blended perfectly
_________________
_________________________________
82 Diesel Westy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
| Home Team Van wrote: |
| You can overlap at the top and it won't be noticeable at all. |
That is a matter of opinion and I disagree completely.
I will pick out where the panels have been bonded if you just lay one ontop of another.
The depth of that are will not match the rest.
Use a flange tool to make a recess on one side.
This also will make a much stronger seam.
Link
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alijonny
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Des Plaines, IL
|
| Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
| insyncro wrote: |
| Home Team Van wrote: |
| You can overlap at the top and it won't be noticeable at all. |
That is a matter of opinion and I disagree completely.
I will pick out where the panels have been bonded if you just lay one ontop of another.
The depth of that are will not match the rest.
Use a flange tool to make a recess on one side.
This also will make a much stronger seam.
Link
|
I have the same tool, sourced from my matco guy as a silver eagle product. Makes very nice step flanges, but the spot weld puncher is a bit big for my taste...
_________________
1965 Beetle
1990 Syncro Westfalia
1983 Westfalia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Drivers side lower rust repair |
|
|
| Yes, I have that tool as well...3/16" is the punch off the top of my head. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
