Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Anyone have 85 TinTop AC with Subaru ?
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Anyone have 85 TinTop AC with Subaru ? Reply with quote

I'm helping someone install a Vanaru 2.5 into an 85 tin-top. They have this funky center AC system:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Bentley doesn't mention this system. Was this 1985 AC aftermarket or a dealer installed system? (the way things are installed it looks dealer installed) and more importantly has anyone revived one of these systems? If so, can you share some tips? (this one hasn't worked for many many years)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake de Villiers
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 4298
Location: Crescent Beach, BC
Jake de Villiers is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have 85 TinTop AC with Subaru ? Reply with quote

guzyk wrote:
I'm helping someone install a Vanaru 2.5 into an 85 tin-top. They have this funky center AC system:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Bentley doesn't mention this system. Was this 1985 AC aftermarket or a dealer installed system? (the way things are installed it looks dealer installed) and more importantly has anyone revived one of these systems? If so, can you share some tips? (this one hasn't worked for many many years)


Hi, Paul. My '84 GL has that dealer-installed A/C. It puts a lot of cold air right where you want it.

It worked well but I didn't like how much power the compressor robbed from the engine, so didn't use it much. Obviously, with a 2.5 that won't be an issue!
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Howesight
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 2149
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Howesight is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guzyk:

I can't say that I have revived one of those funky systems, but the steps are always the same:

1. Check, with a proper gauge set, whether there is any refrigerant pressure in the system at all. If so, you are in luck because this means there is likely little to no contamination in the system since it was not open to the elements.

2. Remove all the refrigerant hoses and have them rebuilt with new barrier hose, using as much as possible, the existing VW fittings. Flush the components which you intend to reuse (evaporator and condenser). Use new O-rings everywhere. Note that the original hoses develop cracks and leaks from the inside out. External visual inspection will not reveal the hose condition. No 30-year-old hose will be useable and replacement is a must. You can save money by ordering bulk hose and crimping fittings yourself.

3. Remove and drain the compressor. Measure the amount that comes out and note the measurement. Check whether it was ever "converted" to R134A refrigerant. If not, then it contains mineral oil. Run clean mineral oil through it, turn the shaft and drain several times. This is done to clean it out. You cannot run solvents through the compressor, so this is the tedious method.

4. Alternatively, buy a new compressor from Nostalgic AC Parts:
http://nostalgicac.com/compressors.html

5. Clean the fins of the evaporator and the evaporator fans.

6. Check that evaporator enclosure drains are clear and repair as needed.

7. Replace the expansion valve on the evaporator. Nostalgic has them. You don't have to use a VW-spec unit - - the generic ones Nostalgic sells will work.

8. Replace the receiver-drier with new - - again, this is s generic item.

9. Use RedTek refrigerant. If you use R134A, the performance of your system will be poor UNLESS you install a modern parallel-flow condenser. Nostalgic sells those too, and for less than the VW factory (low performance) condenser. Here's the 16" x 22" unit I recommend:

http://nostalgicac.com/16-x-22-superflow-r-134a-condenser.html

10. Even with a new condenser, I still recommend using Red Tek refrigerant. Since your whole system will be like new, do not use any "leak stop" products as they are not needed.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: thanks howesight Reply with quote

Thanks for all your great advice Howesight. The hoses/lines were unhooked and full of crud so no doubt I'll get all new ones made front to back that will mate with Subie compressor.

Subaru compressor will be late model, (engine is 2011) I think for around $100 new condenser makes sense, ditto on receiver/dryer and expansion valve.

I'm just dreading the plastics in the ceiling, hopefully they don't disintegrate when I open up the evaportator. I guess I'll have to check the blower in the ceiling also and make sure it works then figure out how to flush the evaporator. At that point I'll have close to a new system.

Didn't know about RedTek but it sounds more suitable for Vanagon than R134A.


Last edited by guzyk on Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Install guide for early AC? Reply with quote

Has anyone come across the installation manual for this early Vanagon "dealer installed" AC system? If so, a scan/link would be wonderful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake de Villiers
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 4298
Location: Crescent Beach, BC
Jake de Villiers is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Install guide for early AC? Reply with quote

guzyk wrote:
Has anyone come across the installation manual for this early Vanagon "dealer installed" AC system? If so, a scan/link would be wonderful.


I take it back - I used to have a copy but I can't find it on my hard drive... I had a crash a few months ago and a few things appear to have gone missing.

I do have the Behr In-dash A/C Manual.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Source for expansion valve ? Reply with quote

Where's the best place to buy a new one of these A/C expansion valves for the "dealer installed" 85 ceiling a/c unit?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I want decent quality, I know there's $10 Chinese ones out there, but I don't want to replace it again anytime soon....it's a PITA to get to.

Would this be a good kit to buy?
http://nostalgicac.com/driers-valves/expansion-valves/oring-expansion-valve-replacement-kit.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TequilaSunSet
Samba Member


Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2086
Location: Cali Cali
TequilaSunSet is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one in my 85 too with a 1.8T, but I'm not much help in regard to helping you get it going. I can say it's not great by a long shot, but on hot days it is far better than not having it.
_________________
"Krusty" Satin White - 85 AUTO w/ 3.27 R&P Vanagon HIGH Top w/ Westy Camper bits, 1.8t Very Happy
2014 Lancer AWC
2007 Tango (Home) Living small

Don't harsh my mellow...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
geodude
Samba Member


Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Sacramento
geodude is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of those systems that I pulled from a wreck. R134 filled when I pulled it and all the hoses had been replaced with newer hose and even had a new compressor. But I never used it. I recall that it wasn't too hard to pull all the hoses and such, just took a couple hours. Might be worth pulling the hoses and have a shop make new ones. I believe there were two really long hoses and one or two shorter ones. The pile of parts are in storage so can't take a quick look. The parts are pretty generic and not particularly Vanagon specific. The expansion valve is available and cheap. http://www.discountacparts.com/addtocart~year~1985...-01538.asp
_________________
1990 Vanagon Carat
1982 Vanagon Diesel - In pieces at the moment
1987 Syncro - RIP
2010 Sportwagen TDI the road warrior
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Howesight
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 2149
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Howesight is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Source for expansion valve ? Reply with quote

guzyk wrote:
Where's the best place to buy a new one of these A/C expansion valves for the "dealer installed" 85 ceiling a/c unit?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I want decent quality, I know there's $10 Chinese ones out there, but I don't want to replace it again anytime soon....it's a PITA to get to.

Would this be a good kit to buy?
http://nostalgicac.com/driers-valves/expansion-valves/oring-expansion-valve-replacement-kit.html


Hi Guzyk:

The unit in the link above is good quality. Nostalgic Air uses a lot of old-school technology (as opposed to the electronic controls, for example) in their kits to service the hot-rodder segment of the DIY AC market. They sell the good stuff, unlike some parts jobbers who will never see you again.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 10010
Location: Riviera Beach, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Source for expansion valve ? Reply with quote

guzyk wrote:
Where's the best place to buy a new one of these A/C expansion valves for the "dealer installed" 85 ceiling a/c unit?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I want decent quality, I know there's $10 Chinese ones out there, but I don't want to replace it again anytime soon....it's a PITA to get to.

Would this be a good kit to buy?
http://nostalgicac.com/driers-valves/expansion-valves/oring-expansion-valve-replacement-kit.html


If the capillary tube is intact, you probably don't need to replace it. If you look at the one end you will see two set screws for adjusting it. I imagine you could just clean it out and put it back into service. They would clog during a component failure and be replaced. At one time VW even had a cone shaped screen filter on the inlet, but in production probably realized it was better to not stop crud there and got away from that. If you are resurrecting and old system, I have seen inline filters you can add to the high side coming out of the compressor to catch any debris. If you can get the system flushed well, you would not need an inline filter.

AC rocks.
_________________
Looking for a good used low gear housing Syncro.
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cubscout
Samba Member


Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Nashville
Cubscout is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of the expansion valve being a PITA to get to. Any tips on getting to it? Im stuck on this part of the red tek conversion process....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You gotta drop the center section of the AC. The expansion valve is near the drivers side tubes that run up the added inside pillar.

Easiest to drop the whole ceiling unit take it apart on the floor of the van. Start from front of van work back to remove. Helper makes it easier.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:38 am    Post subject: Where does "coat hanger" wire go? Reply with quote

When I took it all apart I didn't note where the "coat hanger wire" goes. it is connected to the right dial in front and I know it goes down the center tube but where in the rear section does it go? Does it just sit on top of the evaporator fins or just hang out in the rear section somewhere?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The capillary tube gets stuck on the evaporator with some strip caulking direct onto the coils--nowhere specific, just as long as it'll be able to read the temp of the coils.

Don't try and clean out the expansion valve--you can, but whatever might be in there will get stuck at the dead end of the capillary tube & it wouldn't function properly if it's full of junk.
There's no way outa there if whatever goo might be in there gets jammed at the end of the tube, and it will mess up the AC's operation.
_________________
T.K.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant the long wire that goes from front section to rear.
(front "dealer installed" ceiling a/c unit 1985)
It appears to be connected to the temp dial up front
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But where do I set the other end of the "coat hanger" wire in the rear section?

--

BTW, the capillary tube of expansion valve is clipped to the other hard line of the evaporator (I did take a photo of this before replacing so I'm good with that)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: coat hanger location figured out! Reply with quote

The evaporator end of the coat hanger goes into the hole in the black plastic evaporator cover, see photo above. The small hole is only on one side of the black cover, and there's a corresponding hole on the big cover piece. I'll post pictures once it's all back together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
guzyk
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Boulder, CO
guzyk is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I need help with the electrical bits. Is this extra fuse panel beside the main dash panel related to the aftermarket A/C? If so, what fuse is missing to the right of the yellow 20Amp fuse?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also, in the engine bay it appears only one wire is AC related. I think it simply went to the AC clutch. However, later model "factory air" Vanagons had two wires, one for AC clutch, I think the other to increase idle when AC was on??

Any advice how best to integrate the VW aftermarket AC wiring with Subaru wiring?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Modtechteam
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Florida
Modtechteam is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have 85 TinTop AC with Subaru ? Reply with quote

I have an 83 Air Cooled Vanagon with factory AC, I need the double pulley that went under the compressor does anyone know a place I can get one? Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB