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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Hello guys,
I'm at a lost. so a little background, My 73 bus started sputtering really bad about 600 miles after a mechanic changed the points and re-timed it. got to a a VW Mechanic in Amerillo, tx and they did a tune up, re-timed it changed the points again and it ran great......for 60 miles.
From there I got it towed home My first instict was fuel. So I installed an electric fuel pump and lines, cleaned the carb and the problem persists.
Now I'm thinking is a timing problem and maybe the distributer keeps getting slowly loose adn gets out of time.
this is where I'm having trouble. I tried timing it per john muirs book statically and it wouldnt idle. I kind of timed it by ear to get it to idle and it is way too advanced.
I went and got a timing gun and it shows 28degrees at idle if I do anything less than that it would barely fire up.
now I got a new timing scale and verified (via the pencil test on the #1) that the notch/mark on the pulley is TDC.
can anyone shine some light here?
thanks
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Messy
You should ask a moderator to move this to the Baywindow forum for some precise answers.
I'd start by looking for vacuum leaks where the center section of the manifold joins the runners and where the runners bolt to the heads, get it idling and trickle a garden hose on each joint, then listen for a drop in RPM. Also pull one wire out of the distributor cap at a time and listen for a drop in RPM, if one wire doesn't make a difference that cylinder is dead.
Have you set the valves and done a compression test?
The best way to time it is revved to ~3500 RPM so the mark stops advancing even though the revs are still increasing, that notch on the pulley should stop at 28 degrees.
Reasons for the timing to change are a loose or damaged distributor clamp, rough or rusty cam in the distributor where the points rub on it or crappy new points that were or the plastic block breaks on. What brand of points did you use?
How's your fuel filter look?, those Weber's get cranky when there's dirt in the jets. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Thanks, I'll try looking for a vacuum leak again I sprayed some carb cleaner around the joints and couldn't tell much of a difference but he idle I sucky anyways.
I set the valves, new cables, new plugs, new dist cap and rotor and the poits are bosch. No compression test yet I'll do that next. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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If the brake booster hose is attached to the manifold try removing it and capping the port on the manifold as well (caution, non power brakes during that test), a leak in the booster or lines can also cause shittier than normal Weber idle. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Why is hose missing on vacuum canister in last picture... And what looks like a piece of paper stuffed into it?
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Sally the Bus wrote: |
The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light. |
Have you verified that both the retard and advance cans are holding a vacuum? You need a hand vacuum pump to check it. The tongue test is not accurate. When's the last time the distributor was disassembled, cleaned and relubed? _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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It's likely best it's disconnected since the vacuum signal from the Weber is far to strong for a DVDA, most are making vacuum on the advance port at idle. Betcha the timing advances a few degrees when you reconnect the hose. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Sally the Bus wrote: |
The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light. |
Have you verified that both the retard and advance cans are holding a vacuum? You need a hand vacuum pump to check it. The tongue test is not accurate. When's the last time the distributor was disassembled, cleaned and relubed? |
I did the suck on the hose test to see the advance work. and it does work well. The Dist was taking apart and re-relubed by the amarillo, tx VW mechanics when they replaced the points. so that was maybe 3 weeks and 60 miles ago.
I have a compu-tronix in a box that I think is bad idea to install until I get it running so now I'm running on points. what do you guys think? |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Set points and timing by the book, start from there....... Might also check condenser, seems to be a rash of bad ones lately...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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I know the specs to set the timing. the problem is that unless I set the timing way advanced 28* at iddle it wont idle for me to time it wiht the strobe light. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Then turn that angled throttle stop screw with the spring under the head sticking out of the carb base in a turn. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Rubber Duck Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2006 Posts: 806 Location: Pitt Meadows BC
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Hmmmm on the photo with the silver clamp thingy, which I'm assuming is your strobe light signal reader...are you sure that's going to number 1 plug? Cos if it isn't, you're going to be getting really odd readings on what you're timing... _________________ ---------
Rubber Duck
1974 Westfalia |
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Alright. Still working on it. Do these look like the aluminum pushrods to you too? So I don't have hydraulic lifter?
Thanks for the help guys
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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Hard to tell on the push rods. Put a magnet on them. That will tell you quickly. Steel is chromoly and loose zero adjustment. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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those are aluminum push rods. Set to .006" cold. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
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Sally the Bus Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 51 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! |
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She runs! She's alive. So I adjusted the valves and re timed it. It was running ok so then I dropped in the computronix and it runs like new!
Thank you guys so much for your help.
Now the dizzy is a 028 and with the vacuum advance. I didn't put the spacer ring that required Grinding the rotor. Is this ok?
It runs fine and wheel clears the mechanism but now I dunno how is gonna vacuum advance? Or does the compu tronix doesn't need it?
Thanks |
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