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Timing the beast Help please!
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Hello guys,

I'm at a lost. so a little background, My 73 bus started sputtering really bad about 600 miles after a mechanic changed the points and re-timed it. got to a a VW Mechanic in Amerillo, tx and they did a tune up, re-timed it changed the points again and it ran great......for 60 miles.

From there I got it towed home Sad My first instict was fuel. So I installed an electric fuel pump and lines, cleaned the carb and the problem persists.

Now I'm thinking is a timing problem and maybe the distributer keeps getting slowly loose adn gets out of time.

this is where I'm having trouble. I tried timing it per john muirs book statically and it wouldnt idle. I kind of timed it by ear to get it to idle and it is way too advanced.
I went and got a timing gun and it shows 28degrees at idle Shocked if I do anything less than that it would barely fire up.

now I got a new timing scale and verified (via the pencil test on the #1) that the notch/mark on the pulley is TDC.

can anyone shine some light here?

thanks
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Messy Confused

You should ask a moderator to move this to the Baywindow forum for some precise answers.

I'd start by looking for vacuum leaks where the center section of the manifold joins the runners and where the runners bolt to the heads, get it idling and trickle a garden hose on each joint, then listen for a drop in RPM. Also pull one wire out of the distributor cap at a time and listen for a drop in RPM, if one wire doesn't make a difference that cylinder is dead.
Have you set the valves and done a compression test?

The best way to time it is revved to ~3500 RPM so the mark stops advancing even though the revs are still increasing, that notch on the pulley should stop at 28 degrees.
Reasons for the timing to change are a loose or damaged distributor clamp, rough or rusty cam in the distributor where the points rub on it or crappy new points that were or the plastic block breaks on. What brand of points did you use?

How's your fuel filter look?, those Weber's get cranky when there's dirt in the jets.
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Thanks, I'll try looking for a vacuum leak again I sprayed some carb cleaner around the joints and couldn't tell much of a difference but he idle I sucky anyways.

I set the valves, new cables, new plugs, new dist cap and rotor and the poits are bosch. No compression test yet I'll do that next.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

If the brake booster hose is attached to the manifold try removing it and capping the port on the manifold as well (caution, non power brakes during that test), a leak in the booster or lines can also cause shittier than normal Weber idle.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Why is hose missing on vacuum canister in last picture... And what looks like a piece of paper stuffed into it?

Dale
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Sally the Bus wrote:
The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light.


Have you verified that both the retard and advance cans are holding a vacuum? You need a hand vacuum pump to check it. The tongue test is not accurate. When's the last time the distributor was disassembled, cleaned and relubed?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

It's likely best it's disconnected since the vacuum signal from the Weber is far to strong for a DVDA, most are making vacuum on the advance port at idle. Betcha the timing advances a few degrees when you reconnect the hose.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Sally the Bus wrote:
The vacuum advanced hose is off and plugged since I was trying to time it with the strobe light.


Have you verified that both the retard and advance cans are holding a vacuum? You need a hand vacuum pump to check it. The tongue test is not accurate. When's the last time the distributor was disassembled, cleaned and relubed?


I did the suck on the hose test to see the advance work. and it does work well. The Dist was taking apart and re-relubed by the amarillo, tx VW mechanics when they replaced the points. so that was maybe 3 weeks and 60 miles ago.

I have a compu-tronix in a box that I think is bad idea to install until I get it running so now I'm running on points. what do you guys think?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Set points and timing by the book, start from there....... Might also check condenser, seems to be a rash of bad ones lately...

Dale
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Crank the idle up to around 2000RPM and try dialing the advance back to 28~30 total, and then set the idle again. Hoses off and plugged of course.
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

I know the specs to set the timing. the problem is that unless I set the timing way advanced 28* at iddle it wont idle for me to time it wiht the strobe light.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Then turn that angled throttle stop screw with the spring under the head sticking out of the carb base in a turn.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Hmmmm on the photo with the silver clamp thingy, which I'm assuming is your strobe light signal reader...are you sure that's going to number 1 plug? Cos if it isn't, you're going to be getting really odd readings on what you're timing... Shocked
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Alright. Still working on it. Do these look like the aluminum pushrods to you too? So I don't have hydraulic lifter?

Thanks for the help guys
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

Hard to tell on the push rods. Put a magnet on them. That will tell you quickly. Steel is chromoly and loose zero adjustment.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

those are aluminum push rods. Set to .006" cold.
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Sally the Bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing the beast Help please! Reply with quote

She runs! She's alive. So I adjusted the valves and re timed it. It was running ok so then I dropped in the computronix and it runs like new!
Thank you guys so much for your help.

Now the dizzy is a 028 and with the vacuum advance. I didn't put the spacer ring that required Grinding the rotor. Is this ok?

It runs fine and wheel clears the mechanism but now I dunno how is gonna vacuum advance? Or does the compu tronix doesn't need it?

Thanks
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