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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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BenPonKombi wrote: |
See pic of my adapter below.
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So has anyone else noticed that the "In" port on that adapter is plumbed to the center of the filter? Ass-backwards, right?
In this case, BenPonKombi has actually plumbed his pump and filter adapter up correctly: In to In and Out to Out, as ridiculous as it might seem to the more seasoned wrenches among us. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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As Steve said, the IN is on the outside of the filter and the OUT comes from the center. Your picture doesn't show me well enough where the ports actually lead to. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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some oil filters have a built in bypass. If they flow the wrong way the bypass doesn't work. That means the filter would see the full pressure from the pump when cold. It would probably balloon then rupture the diaphragm.
example:
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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Okay, maybe it was just optical delusion, but it appeared that the In port on that adapter made a right-angle turn to the center boss. One would have to view the underside to be sure, of course.
As far as the bypass valve goes, that is simply there to pass oil around the filter media if the media gets clogged up enough to impair flow. Yes, it would allow excessive pressure to build up if the filter was clogged badly and the flow in the filter was backwards ( ie. center to outside), but there should be no such danger if the filter was new and clean. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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As anoying as it is the oil light quit often does flicker at idle. This may have nothing to do with the oil pressure and have everything to do with the oil sender switch.
Put a gauge on it and see what your pressure is at idle and for every 1K rpm.
Good luck
Tcash
You posted the pic of the oil adapter is not yours. Please post a picture of yours? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51149 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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The issue is that anti drainback valve, it's a one way valve and really restricts the flow, hopefully the bearings haven't suffered from starvation yet.
The casting on that filter mount doesn't always let you know what's going on underneath, you have to look from below to see where the passages actually go. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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SlowLane Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: Livermore, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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The OP said he had 80 psi at a cold idle. Assuming he's reading from the standard oil pressure port, that means he's seeing pressure downstrem of the remote filter. _________________ Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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BenPonKombi wrote: |
One last thing, do stock springs and plungers work ok with full flow systems like mine? |
Consider: both plungers are AFTER the filter, thus the pump will create whatever pressure needed to get oil to pass through the filter. Therefore, the filter will have little to no effect on the final oil pressure unless (1) the pump is too worn, (2) the filter is hopelessly plugged, (3) the filter adapter, pump cover, or hoses are too restrictive, or (4) a hose or the filter blows up (or some combination of the above).
In short, not to worry. The stock stuff works fine. The biggest problem is generally the oil is too thick when cold (hence 10w30 oil - it's thinner when cold). As long as your oil pressure measures OK, you're OK.
To be absolutely sure of your connections, (a) disconnect the points lead (green wire) at the coil so it won't start, (b) remove the oil filter, (c) put a bucket by the filter adapter to catch the oil, and (d) have someone crank the engine while you observe that oil squirts from the outer filter supply hole. If it comes from the center, the hoses are backwards. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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scrivyscriv Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011 Posts: 2922 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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aeromech wrote: |
As far as oil light flicker at hot idle I've found that it's caused by wear between the bypass piston and the bore wall. These can be oversized and cure the problem. These pics show me performing the mod to a T4 engine but a T1 is similar.
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Interesting, thanks for sharing that. I wonder how many times one can oversize that bore during the life of a case. It's interesting that you see wear in that area, given all the oil on either side of the piston. _________________ Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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BenPonKombi Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2015 Posts: 36 Location: Houston
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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Gentlemen,
The adapter shown in the picture I posted is not my filter adapter; it's just a picture I took from google images to show what kind of adapter i'm dealing with. Mine is has the inlet and outlet going the opposite direction and it does not have the threaded hole on top of the inlet port. You can see my actual adapter in the picture below.
_________________ 1970 Microbus
V-Dub Chasing |
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BenPonKombi Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2015 Posts: 36 Location: Houston
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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Quote: |
In short, not to worry. The stock stuff works fine. The biggest problem is generally the oil is too thick when cold (hence 10w30 oil - it's thinner when cold). As long as your oil pressure measures OK, you're OK.
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To be absolutely sure of your connections, (a) disconnect the points lead (green wire) at the coil so it won't start, (b) remove the oil filter, (c) put a bucket by the filter adapter to catch the oil, and (d) have someone crank the engine while you observe that oil squirts from the outer filter supply hole. If it comes from the center, the hoses are backwards.
telford dorr, you brought up some good points. I'm going to follow your suggestions to confirm if oil is flowing correctly.
In regards to oil pressure, what should my VDO gauge read when cold and when hot/ idle? _________________ 1970 Microbus
V-Dub Chasing |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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scrivyscriv wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
As far as oil light flicker at hot idle I've found that it's caused by wear between the bypass piston and the bore wall. These can be oversized and cure the problem. These pics show me performing the mod to a T4 engine but a T1 is similar.
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Interesting, thanks for sharing that. I wonder how many times one can oversize that bore during the life of a case. It's interesting that you see wear in that area, given all the oil on either side of the piston. |
Here's some more info. The size of the bypass plunger plugs are different in a type 1 and a type 4. When reaming the T4 as I showed the threaded hole for the plug is larger than the reamer so I didn't cut on the threads. When doing a T1 you actually remove some of the thread inside diameter. This to would be the limiting factor when oversizing. But my guess is that it's taken a million movements of that bypass piston going up and down to wear out the bore side clearance so needing to ever do the job again to a 40 year old engine case sounds remote to me. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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VWCOOL Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 1821 Location: Down under
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow Oil Filter Swelling Up |
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You wont have any of these problems if you take the fool-flow filter off, use good air cleaners and change oil every 2000 miles |
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