horrible and poor tire wear

[Tom Powell]

Long story. I need help and recommendations.

I bought an ’87 Vanagon in Oregon and drove it to the East Coast and back to SoCal. The PO had done a 2” lift and put on new tires. Possibly he did not do a wheel alignment, but I found some paperwork. The front tires were horribly worn after I got to SoCal. I replaced them and had an alignment done. The tires have CIP1 spacers and I want to replace those with solid spacers from T3. I pulled a front tire to measure the spacers and noted that the new tires are wearing poorly after a SoCal, Utah, Tahoe, SoCal trip and another SoCal, Tahoe, SoCal trip. Damn. I measured the CIP1 spacers at 14.5mm. I have T3 15mm spacers in my shopping cart. I’ll order them, install them, switch tires front to back, and get another alignment. Attached are photos of the spacers on one wheel and vernier scale, old/new tire with horrible wear, alignment specs, wheel, new/new tire with poor wear.

Aloha
tp

CIP1 spacers and vernier

old/new tire with horrible wear

paperwork with purchase
may or may not be after PO 2' lift and new tires

SoCal alignment after new/new tires

wheel and tire outside

wheel and tire inside

poor wear on new/new tire after SoCal alighnment and ski trips

[Christopher Schimke]

Man, that sucks! Assuming nothing is worn or loose in the front end, the tire wear looks like it is probably caused by excessive toe out and possibly some positive camber. If the caster is way, way off, it could be contributing too. The only fix is going to be a quality alignment...which can be hard to get done these days.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
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[crazyvwvanman]

Why are such thick spacers being used?
What is the width of those rims?

Mark

[Tom Powell]

[jimf909]

GW 16" wheels and 215/65 tires. I've got those (with 215/60 tires) and don't need spacers. Do they become necessary when lifting it 2"?
_________________
- Jim

[Tom Powell]

[jimf909]

Here's a photo of my spare 16" GW wheel. Perhaps the markings are helpful.

Yep, they're both 16" x 7.5" but it's hard to confirm the offset (ET)...

_________________
- Jim

[Christopher Schimke]

[Steve M.]

Post a picture of the upper control arms to confirm you have the spacer needed for the 2" lift.
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[Tom Powell]

[Christopher Schimke]

Yes, you do have upper ball joint spacers in place.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Terry Kay]

The offset of them wheels will not alter the positive toe, nor will will it change the positive camber.

Too much of either will chop up them tires pretty quick.

Deal with that first.
_________________
T.K.

[Tom Powell]

Thanks TK.
The spacers that were on there were two on each side, 14.5mm total. I don't like the fact that they are a "universal fit". I think that they could "hang" during installation and cause an imbalance. I just ordered a solid 15mm spacer for each side from T3. When they get here, I'll put the T3 spacers, front wheels and tires back on and go for a talk with the alignment folks.

Aloha
tp

[Terry Kay]

Personally
I'd leave the chewed up front rubber on , then let the front end guy look at the hell of a job he did for you.

When he gets the alignment dialed in right, then rotate them to the back.

I'd flip the tires over on them wheels.
Get the chopped up side to the inside.

Try and allow the tires to wear flat.
_________________
T.K.

[Tom Powell]

Update and new questions:

I got the solid spacers from T3 and replaced the CIP1 spacers on the front wheels. I noticed that the socket went deeper into one side than the other when the socket was on the shoulder and the lug bolt was fully torqued. WTF I then checked the socket depth on the rear wheels and it was different side to side also. Do I have two sets of wheels instead of four matched wheels? With the same wheels I might expect a difference front/rear, lug bolt/lug nut, but not side to side. I'm going to start digging through the PO paperwork and see if all the wheels were bought at the same time. That might be a clue. Maybe the next step is to pull all four wheels and inspect them for thickness at the lug hole. Or do I have two sets of wheels with different offsets?

Right Front

Left Front

Right Rear

Left Rear

Aloha
tp

[Christopher Schimke]

There are so many versions of that wheel by different manufacturers that having two different sets does not surprise me. The ones you showed in your first set of photos is definitely the ASA Type 8 wheel. If the wheel offsets and sizes are the same left and right, it is not a factor in your tire wear issue. However, to ensure that the wheels are mounted safely, you will want to check the thickness of the wheel through the lug hole as shown in the photo below (blue arrow). This is important since it determines how much thread engagement you have for a given bolt/stud length.

_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Tom Powell]

Thanks for the input Chris:

The first set of photos I posted was only the left front tire. Both front tires were wearing poorly. Most likely due to alignment. I think the next step is to pull both front tires and check the wheel thickness at the lug bolt hole, your blue line. However if the wheel thickness was different left/right wouldn't that be the same as different offsets? And would that affect proper alignment? I only have two jack stands. Even if I buy another pair I don't like the idea of the car in the air with no wheels, only four jack stands. After a bit of thinking, different offsets alone would not cause the socket depth problem. It looks like I'll be pulling all four wheels and measuring. I'll drop the spare also to see what it looks like.

I checked the PO paperwork and could only find a shop bill for mounting tires onto wheels and balancing. Both the tires and wheels were supplied by the customer. More to follow.

Aloha
tp

[Tom Powell]

I pulled the front wheels and measured the wheel hub thickness. They were different right/left. This resulted in different offsets, more/less meat for the lug bolts and different socket depth. Possibly incorrect alignment.

Right front:

Left front:

The next step is to buy more jack stands and pull the rear wheels and measure them.

Aloha
tp

[levi]

The one looks like it says et48, hard to tell in the photo, what about the 2nd pic, does it have the et stamped in the back ?

One of the pics you posted at the top of the thread looks like et38
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[Tom Powell]

Right front ET23
Left front ET38

Went on my bicycle to get jack stands. Ordered more jack stands from Amazon. They'll be here in a few days and I'll pull the rear wheels and check them. How can a FLAPS not carry jack stands?

Aloha
tp