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Emergency flasher without 9 pin box
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doc73
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Ok so hope y'all can help. When I bought this car the emergency flasher was hooked up in a way that it worked. When I took everything apart I neglected to keep good pictures of the wiring schematics. Everything works now except for the emergency flasher switch. I have the red knob one that lights up.

So my question is, with the relays I have, can I hook up the blue and brown wire from the E knob to my relays to make it function properly?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I circled the 2 spots where the wires come off the switch in the top left of the photo.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Uh, no. I don't see how it could have worked with the parts you show. Is that a 3-terminal flasher then? Or just 3 terminals on the 9-terminal box?

If it's just a 3 terminal flasher, you would need to add another multiple pole relay that would be activated by the e-flasher switch, which would need to simultaneously connect terminals 49a to L and R... also the factory setup disconnected the terminal 15 (switched power) and hooked the flasher relay up to terminal 30, this way the e-flashers work with the ignition switch off. Something along the lines of this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With what you have now, all you can get is turn signals.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

So is that a relay that some one has a part number for? It's probably just easier to by a 9 pin box from WW.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

The relay in my photo is a generic 4PDT (four pole, double throw) relay you'd get from like an electronics store. (search eBay for 4PDT 12VDC and you'll find lots of them, but you'll want a higher wattage one, as the current for 4 standard blinker bulbs could be 8 amps or so) You could do the same with multiple individual relays, I did that for a while on my Baja bug, but it looked like a pile of spaghetti.

And yes it probably would be easier to just get the proper relay for the application.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

All that's needed for 4-way flashers on a VW: one flasher and one Double Pole Single Thrown switch. Cool

Here is a schematic.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Ok that schematic means nothing to me. I am not literate in electrical diagrams but thanks for the try runamoc.

Probably play it safe and buy the 9 pin box from WW.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

What he shows does in fact work. But he neglected to mention that it also requires a 2nd flasher relay in order for it to work with the ignition switch off. And it does not use the stock switch.

I had grabbed the first diagram I found in my directory of uploaded images when I showed that 4PDT relay above, and IIRC, I drew that up as an example of a relay doing what's shown on later VW diagrams where a multi-contact switch does the work instead of a relay... and forgetting you don't need 4 sets of contacts, you can do that with a 3PDT relay. Looking at my computer files, I found I had a much better diagram of a 3PDT relay doing just that.

Also of a 2PDT relay with a 2nd flasher relay, a similar setup to runamoc but still using the stock switch to trigger the relay. You could even use a 2PST relay, but the 2PDT is more commonly found for 12VDC.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

There is a simpler way.. albeit requires an added driver input operation and has an inherent flaw.

All that is needed to add emergencies to any simple turn signal circuit is to add an extra single pole on/off switch. (or an original emergency switch)
This is probably how it was made to work.. with one flasher.
It does require a basic knowledge of electrical systems to connect.

Use the extra added switch to electrically connect/disconnect left and right sides together.

To use
Activate a turn left or right
Flip/pull the added switch..
Tadahh. .. added emergencies.

The hiccup .. it can only have emergency lamp usage with the IGN ON.

That's the reason for a relay box.. it provides seamless switching between the turns and the Emergencies, provides IGN ON turn signal use and IGN On or OFF Emergency use.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Quote:
requires a 2nd flasher relay in order for it to work


I saw busses in Europe with 4-way flashers on. You could tell they were using a different flasher for each side because they 'flashed' 'in sync' sometimes, other times off slightly, until they got back around to 'in sync'. Change the above schematic by placing a flasher on the right side, another on the left side, of the turn signal switch. Still use the DPST switch. Personally, I don't use emergency flashers. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

So I have the WW 9 pin box. It's great and exactly what I needed. Oh wait, it didn't come any frickin Instuctions! Not a lick of a note to even get someone started! What the crap!

Any help is greatly appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Depending on the module purchased.. it should either be color coded or numbered/lettered to match your corresponding wiring schematic.

It's pretty much plug and play.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

So the 9 pin box relay is simply suppose to replace the 2 prong flasher that I'm currently using right? And some of the pins wont be used because of the year and car that I have correct?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

doc73 wrote:
So the 9 pin box relay is simply suppose to replace the 2 prong flasher that I'm currently using right? And some of the pins wont be used because of the year and car that I have correct?


Yes..
and
Maybe.

What year do you have?
Do you plan to use the Emergency portion?

I guess Anxious we assumed here... you have a 66 or 67?

1966 is 6 volt
1967 is 12 volt.

Both flasher modules are essentially the same design and if its a 66-67 most if not all of the terminals of the module will be connected to operate and be fully functional .

The so called module a is self contained flasher that is used for both turn signal and emergency flash operation.

Which one did you purchase for what year and voltage car?


.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Yes on the emergency portion. I bought the one from WW 12v for 67 on. It just occurred to me I should probably be looking at the wiring diagram for 67 not a 66 1300?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

doc73 wrote:
Yes on the emergency portion. I bought the one from WW 12v for 67 on. It just occurred to me I should probably be looking at the wiring diagram for 67 not a 66 1300?


Not really..
The turn and emergency wiring is virtually identical 66-67.
Match terminal numbers or colors on the module to the schematic and the car. ..
Its really that simple.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Kit from JBUGS.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input. Everything is now in working order. The wiring diagram for 1967 on was the diagram I needed for my 66 that has been converted to 12v.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

By the way I did notice when the e flashers were on, the interior light was dimming slightly to the pulse of the flashing. Car is 12v but would this be pretty common power drain with the car not running? Or is something amiss?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

doc73 wrote:
By the way I did notice when the e flashers were on, the interior light was dimming slightly to the pulse of the flashing. Car is 12v but would this be pretty common power drain with the car not running? Or is something amiss?


Normal. Flashing 4 bulbs at once is enough current rush to cause a momentary dimming when on battery power.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency flasher without 9 pin box Reply with quote

i went through this just yesterday!
i went ahead and found out why it has 9 terminals, because in some busses, it runs the brake lights through it too, but bugs just use 7 pins.

I found two that did not blink, but the relay for the flashers worked..... so I took it apart, removed all the parts of the blinker portion, soldered on three wires for a three terminal flasher. i wanted to put the three terminal flasher INSIDE the big box, but it didn't quite fit, so it's strapped to the side. works well and does preserve the original wire locations and colors, so the next guy might be a little confused, but not totally lost.
If it was ME I'd just use a nice toggle switch, but for other forlks I try to restore rather than restroy Razz .
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