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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: Fuel pump ?'s |
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Okay, I'm trying to get my new Westy running (see my other thread...). I stole the battery out of my other car and got it cranking, but not firing up. I also put in a new fuel filter and pulled the fuel pump out, inspected, cleaned the ground etc. and reinstalled. When the key is turned the pump makes a little clunk, but it doesn't seem to be pushing gas - I unplugged the fuel filter outlet hose and nothing came out while cranking. So I should be looking for a new fuel pump, correct? Just want to make sure I'm not missing something simple...
It's weird, because the PO had the pump replaced (I have the receipt). There was a gas tank replacement on 5/24/04, then fuel pump replacement on 8/6/04... |
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weinerwagen
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 1548
Location: Monterey, CA -Laguna Seca--Coats, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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You should here a slight purring sound. Which is the pump priming the system. Now lucky for you, as luck has it, those pumps are a snap to change and not expensive....
Do that filter while you are at it.
The next "clunk" we want to hear is the 2.1 running, lifters lifting and driver smiling like a 8 year old Christmas Morning.... |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| weinerwagen wrote: |
You should here a slight purring sound. Which is the pump priming the system. Now lucky for you, as luck has it, those pumps are a snap to change and not expensive....
Do that filter while you are at it.
The next "clunk" we want to hear is the 2.1 running, lifters lifting and driver smiling like a 8 year old Christmas Morning.... |
The "purring"...should the pump be priming when I turn the key to on, but before I crank it? I'm definitely not getting that.
I found a couple on E-Bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...ename=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...ename=WDVW
Either that, or I could get one locally - there's a used one for $100, or another place has remanufactured ones for $119+core exchange...gotta decide if I want to save the cash and risk eBay/shipping, or go for instant gratification and pick up a local one... |
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weinerwagen
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 1548
Location: Monterey, CA -Laguna Seca--Coats, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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The pump (s) plural as in our A and B series do a purring sound then stop. But with the pump so far down under the van, it might light up and stay running the whole time....I know the lift pumps in the tanks of the Jettas and Passats you hear the purring should briefly then it quits...
the pump COULD on the van just turn on and stay running...the vans only have that one pump there below the sink, drivers side rail.
One thing, the Bosch system does need good stable pressure to run properly. No uncommon to see the pressure at 70 lbs per sq in
Thats why when the lines on the injectors blow a leak you get fuel spraying all over the hot exhaust and  you grab your Playboy and bail out...
I've had decent luck with these guys, Kevin who used to use the
email of [email protected] has gotten me some good parts at a great price. Good enough price that I go to my local import auto parts place and make them match it or come close... I see they are
$205 for a Bosch. Knowing that, I will grab several when I hit the
Pick A Part self service junk yards next week
http://www.importpartsauthority.com/epcvsoapimc.ep...sauthority |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Okay...so I picked up a used (but working) Bosch fuel pump. The old one was some aftermarket brand. Plugged it in, turned the key...whiirrrrrr - great! Did it a couple more times: whirrrr....whirrrr....clunk. WTF?
Now it's doing the same thing as the old one - did I just fry my new fuel pump? What could be killing it? I'm going to check out the electrical...any thoughts? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think you need to change the fuel filter, then blow back through the fuel feed line- gas cap off- with some compressed air. Be aware that it will probably blow gas out of the filler. Put it back together, and try gently knocking your pump with a hammer to make it free up. That "klunk" means you have a siezed pump. Since fuel cools it, if you have no fuel flow, it tends to lock up the pump.
Either that or you got a faulty used pump. It's not electrical; that "thump" tells me that the pump is getting the signal when it's supposed to get it.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
I think you need to change the fuel filter, then blow back through the fuel feed line- gas cap off- with some compressed air. Be aware that it will probably blow gas out of the filler. Put it back together, and try gently knocking your pump with a hammer to make it free up. That "klunk" means you have a siezed pump. Since fuel cools it, if you have no fuel flow, it tends to lock up the pump.
Either that or you got a faulty used pump. It's not electrical; that "thump" tells me that the pump is getting the signal when it's supposed to get it. |
Thanks - yeah, I was thinking the electrical signal was probably okay (I also checked that the relay is turning on, etc.), but was wondering if there's any way it coule be frying the pump...but it's just 12V, right? I don't know, just wanted to cover all the bases...
I put on a new fuel filter already, and also disconnected the fuel line and blew through it. Yesterday, I also disconnected the inlet to the pump and poured a little gas through it into a bucket to make sure that was clear and clean.
The shop I bought the pump from tested it right before I bought it, and it worked for a minute for me. I know it's not good to run it dry for a long time, but it doesn't seem like a few quick tests should kill it. If I want to test just the pump, would it be bad to hook it straight up to a battery for a second to see if it spins? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
I think you need to change the fuel filter, then blow back through the fuel feed line- gas cap off- with some compressed air. Be aware that it will probably blow gas out of the filler. Put it back together, and try gently knocking your pump with a hammer to make it free up. That "klunk" means you have a siezed pump. Since fuel cools it, if you have no fuel flow, it tends to lock up the pump.
Either that or you got a faulty used pump. It's not electrical; that "thump" tells me that the pump is getting the signal when it's supposed to get it. |
Thanks - yeah, I was thinking the electrical signal was probably okay (I also checked that the relay is turning on, etc.), but was wondering if there's any way it coule be frying the pump...but it's just 12V, right? I don't know, just wanted to cover all the bases...
I put on a new fuel filter already, and also disconnected the fuel line and blew through it. Yesterday, I also disconnected the inlet to the pump and poured a little gas through it into a bucket to make sure that was clear and clean.
The shop I bought the pump from tested it right before I bought it, and it worked for a minute for me. I know it's not good to run it dry for a long time, but it doesn't seem like a few quick tests should kill it. If I want to test just the pump, would it be bad to hook it straight up to a battery for a second to see if it spins? |
Pour a little oil in it first.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks...so far, no luck on getting either of the seized pumps to run, though.
I double-checked the ground, which seems to be okay, and the pump is getting 12 volts when switched on. Here's something though - the Bentley diagram shows two fuel filters: one after the the pump (a canister style, the one I replaced) and a smaller square one before the pump. For the smaller one, it says "used only with fuel pump having no filter". I'm guessing my pump doesn't have a filter (at least not that I can tell), but my van has no filter between it and the tank. I'm thinking some stuff got into the pump and seized it when I first ran it (and that the last one failed the same way). So now I think I need to track down a 2nd filter and another new pump. Anybody have a part no. for the smaller square filter? Or will any filter work?
PS - so just to double check...do you think there's anything electrically that could be killing these pumps? I'm a little afraid of buying another new pump and frying it right away... |
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weinerwagen
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 1548
Location: Monterey, CA -Laguna Seca--Coats, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| No self service junk yard near you? Worth the effort to go get several used ones out of vans, for scientific purposes and tests.... |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
Thanks...so far, no luck on getting either of the seized pumps to run, though.
I double-checked the ground, which seems to be okay, and the pump is getting 12 volts when switched on. Here's something though - the Bentley diagram shows two fuel filters: one after the the pump (a canister style, the one I replaced) and a smaller square one before the pump. For the smaller one, it says "used only with fuel pump having no filter". I'm guessing my pump doesn't have a filter (at least not that I can tell), but my van has no filter between it and the tank. I'm thinking some stuff got into the pump and seized it when I first ran it (and that the last one failed the same way). So now I think I need to track down a 2nd filter and another new pump. Anybody have a part no. for the smaller square filter? Or will any filter work?
PS - so just to double check...do you think there's anything electrically that could be killing these pumps? I'm a little afraid of buying another new pump and frying it right away... |
No. I think you have two defective pumps. Buy a new or rebuilt Bosch- don't try to save money by bying aftermarkets.
Stupid detail, but make sure the power is hooked up the right way- reverse polarity will make it run backwards, and it's easy to do.
Remember, solid brown wire = ground.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| shenan-agon wrote: |
Thanks...so far, no luck on getting either of the seized pumps to run, though.
I double-checked the ground, which seems to be okay, and the pump is getting 12 volts when switched on. Here's something though - the Bentley diagram shows two fuel filters: one after the the pump (a canister style, the one I replaced) and a smaller square one before the pump. For the smaller one, it says "used only with fuel pump having no filter". I'm guessing my pump doesn't have a filter (at least not that I can tell), but my van has no filter between it and the tank. I'm thinking some stuff got into the pump and seized it when I first ran it (and that the last one failed the same way). So now I think I need to track down a 2nd filter and another new pump. Anybody have a part no. for the smaller square filter? Or will any filter work?
PS - so just to double check...do you think there's anything electrically that could be killing these pumps? I'm a little afraid of buying another new pump and frying it right away... |
No. I think you have two defective pumps. Buy a new or rebuilt Bosch- don't try to save money by bying aftermarkets.
Stupid detail, but make sure the power is hooked up the right way- reverse polarity will make it run backwards, and it's easy to do.
Remember, solid brown wire = ground. |
The one I bought today was a Bosch...but it was used, not rebuilt. The one on the car was an aftermarket one, which meant I couldn't use it as a core exchange - making a rebuilt one almost as much as a new. Of course, now I'm out 100 bucks anyway on the used one. My ground wire actually isn't brown, but green...I'm not sure if it's the original ground. It's screwed to a spot on the frame right near the pump (but I checked it, and it seems to be a decent ground - and there's a full 12V drop between the 2 wires). The + wire is black...
So should I worry about that other fuel filter? It wouldn't hurt just to plug in one of those little $2 inline ones, right? |
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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SHE'S ALIVE!!!
So, with a lot of WD-40 and a few love taps from the hammer, I was able to get one of my dead fuel pumps spinning again. I picked up a small fuel filter and plugged it in in front of the pump, hooked everything back up, tested...and after a few cranks of the engine, it fired up! Seems like it's idling really high, but I'll save that for tomorrow. Thanks for all your help, guys...
PS - even after running a short time, that little filter is filthy (it's the clear plastic kind). Dirt, rust, pine needle...  |
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Ericthenorse
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Los Osos CA.
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 3:13 am Post subject: |
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 For future reference, you should always test new pumps wet... in addition to cooling the pump, the gas also lubricates it... when the pump is new, the tollerences insideare a lot tighter, and really need the lube.. a few secomds could be tragic. Also, if your pump has a filter built in to the intake fitting, you don't want to add another one between it and the tank. Vangon pumps are better at pushing than pulling, and too much resistance will make your pump have to work just a little harder(if it is bad enough, it can make your pump noisy) 
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Also, you can safely clean/ lube your fuel pump by submerging it in some diesel fuel with wires attached, running it for about 30 sec. in the normal direction using your battery, then reversing polarity at the battery and running it BACKWARDS for about 30 sec.
You'll be amazed at the crap that comes out of it!
It'll run better and QUIETER after that treatment. I've fixed tons of them this way.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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