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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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Thanks for the kind words here D.
I am learning much of this since my ownership of the Syncro. It's been fun and have much more to learn.
Here is a shot of where the UCA hits my wheel well.
Since my suspension rates are about where they should be, would it be better for me to fab up a bump stop on the frame to contact the LCA before banging the wheel well?
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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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Also, with some slight adjustment I am sitting at 18 3/4" in the front and 19 1/4" in the rear. Is 1/2" drop in front ideal?
I measured my spring heights in the front and springs are compressed 4". Originally 12" and 8" under load. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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I thought you were hitting the fender lip.
Wheel/tire size and offset are at play here and yes, more bump stop for sure. |
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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| insyncro wrote: |
I thought you were hitting the fender lip.
Wheel/tire size and offset are at play here and yes, more bump stop for sure. |
Yup - running 225/75/16 which I like.
I only have the issue on big whoop-dees post pop top conversion. I think the additional weight on top (300-400 lbs) tipped the scale just enough as I didnt have the issue beforehand.
Hence the original thought of a slightly stiffer spring. .
Thanks for the advice. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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Explore the extra bumpstop.
Hopefully Christopher or Burley will chime in and either agree or correct me.
Hey Man, sick van BTW 
H6 Baby |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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How are you guys determining spring rates? Both for what you have and for ones for sale.
I'm looking to get firmer but not longer rear springs.
I'm used to bikes where they are nicely printed on the sides... |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| buildyourown wrote: |
How are you guys determining spring rates? Both for what you have and for ones for sale.
I'm looking to get firmer but not longer rear springs.
I'm used to bikes where they are nicely printed on the sides... |
I purchased a tool off eBay to test spring rates.
It looks like a huge strut compressor with a dial indicator. |
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Hey Man, sick van BTW
H6 Baby |
X2! \m/ \m/
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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To go a little deeper down the rabbit hole:::
Check the image below.
Loaded the camp gear and bikes/toys on the back this past weekend.
Measured:
19" front
18.25" rear
The rear dropped about an inch when loaded.
Knowing that would this be a candidate to increase spring rate from 500 to 550? I will be traveling a bunch this summer on some big trips with approx this load.
Thoughts?
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16496
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| Tried the front a while ago and didn't like it. I don't feel comfortable with the front hitch setup I currently have. |
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ScottShelley
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012
Posts: 596
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| Baby Got Back! |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| Rjhdog wrote: |
To go a little deeper down the rabbit hole:::
Check the image below.
Loaded the camp gear and bikes/toys on the back this past weekend.
Measured:
19" front
18.25" rear
The rear dropped about an inch when loaded.
Knowing that would this be a candidate to increase spring rate from 500 to 550? I will be traveling a bunch this summer on some big trips with approx this load.
Thoughts?
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Why not try a pair of these?
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=4346
Link
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hans j
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2714
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| Rjhdog wrote: |
Knowing that would this be a candidate to increase spring rate from 500 to 550? I will be traveling a bunch this summer on some big trips with approx this load.
Thoughts?
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If it were me, I'd just put in a longer spring that is the same rate. But that's because I'm not a fan of high rate springs. Have you weighed the rear axle with all that stuff?
So lets pretend the back weighs 3000 pounds now. And you have a 10" 500# spring. That spring is going to sag 3" (3000/2/500=3). So resting height of the loaded spring is 7"
If you use a 550 rate, it will sag by 2.7". So your new height is 8.3"
If you use an 11" 500# spring, your resting height is 8"
If you use a 12" 500# spring, your resting height is now 9", or two inches taller than the 10" spring.
Take a look into spring frequency and motion ratio to make your decision. Or just buy springs and throw them in and see how you like them. They aren't that expensive.
And 3000# rear axle weight isn't unheard of, I had that when towing the Syncro Solstice trailer when I stopped on the way home at the truck scale (with a much lighter trailer too...). I really didn't notice a rake to my van, even though I'm running lighter than stock spring rates...
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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MidwestDrifter
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2012
Posts: 769
Location: Kicking Around Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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In general changing the spring rate is not the correct way to adjust ride height. Instead using a longer spring or spacer/shims is the preferred method.
While changing the spring rate may raise the ride height, it can negatively impact handling and produce a rough ride. In addition when increasing the spring rate you should increase the damping (shock action) proportionally.
Ideally the spring rate and damping should be matched to the vehicles sprung weight. There is some math involved, and usually some final design tweaking as well.
Vehicles that operate both on and off road are a unique challenge. For on road handling you want minimal body roll, higher spring rates, and higher low speed damping. For off road lower spring rates, lower slow speed damping, and softer springs are often more desirable.
A compromise is needed, multi-valved progressive damping shocks and progressive springs are common choices to maximize performance (not cheap).
_________________
2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| Rjhdog wrote: |
The rear dropped about an inch when loaded.
Knowing that would this be a candidate to increase spring rate from 500 to 550? |
imho, you need a 1" lift when loaded for bear, not stiffer springs that will make for a more jarring ride.
I vote for adjustable rear ride height, like Scott has.
You could just use a couple of rear spring shims instead, but then you will have more than 1" taller rear than front when unloaded.
| hans j wrote: |
| As far as sway goes, my soft springs and stiff dampers work awesome. |
Total agreement. Which is why I like adjustable shocks. Stiffer shocks, not stiffer springs, control body roll.
I only suggest spring changes if you are looking to change ride height. Offroad, soft springs are your friend too.
| MidwestDrifter wrote: |
| In general changing the spring rate is not the correct way to adjust ride height. Instead using a longer spring or spacer/shims is the preferred method. |
well said!
imo stiffer springs is the wrong answer, the ability to adjust to stiffer shocks (Fox comes to mind), and to adjust your rear height (airbags like Scott), would give you more flexibility between your loaded and unloaded configuration.
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6242
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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Not sure what the rear set up looks like on a Syncro, I have a 2wd, but I was able to control the ride height when loaded with air adjustable shocks (Gabriel Hijackers) and I've been very happy with it. Not sure about the fitment or compatibility on a heavily used Syncro however.
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MidwestDrifter
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2012
Posts: 769
Location: Kicking Around Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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The air pressurized shocks and add-on air bags do actually increase the effective spring rate. At least they can be adjusted/disabled when you have a light load though.
The real advantage of a full airbag conversion is that air bag ride height can be adjusted with only minor change to the effective spring rate. This is part of the reason that heavy trucks use air bags. Also air bags require less damping as the bags themselves absorb some energy (similar to how leaf springs rub against each other).
_________________
2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
My Current Build | http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41215 |
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kpbo
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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bumping for followup...
Rjhdog: What did you end up selecting for your springs?
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1987 Syncro Westfalia w/ 'AHU' TDI |
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Rjhdog
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Check out the ride height of our Syncro - spring rate advice |
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| kpbo wrote: |
bumping for followup...
Rjhdog: What did you end up selecting for your springs? |
Nice.
I ended up landing at 500 lbs for front and back with the addition of 1/2" rear spring spacers so i don't have a saggy van with gear loaded.
I sit approx 19" all around.
She is pretty comfortable on the road.
cheers! |
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