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justdale Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 4 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:27 pm Post subject: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Hi all, De-lurking to see if anyone else is running a lithium aux battery
Here is my setup:
full camper syncro
100 Ah LiPo battery pack installed in lower rear cabinet
Samlex Battery Guard (disconnects on low V, high V, >40A)
Battery Doctor 150 to merge/isolate with the start battery
This is the first Li setup that Detlev installed (though I believe he has now converted his personal van). I've made some mods since it was put in.
Pros (so far):
good energy density 100Ah fits in lower cabinet without protruding into the door opening
The 100Ah + DoD seems to provide great life (truck fridge was still running after 3 days)
The Li pack should be good for ~1000 cycles
Cons (so far):
LiPo charge curve tops out at 14+ V, which tends to hold the start battery high enough to prevent the Battery Doctor from isolating the batteries automatically. For now I have a dedicated disable switch. Ideal solution would be a programmable isolator.
Initial low-voltage disconnect was a solid-state relay. Unfortunately it was causing a lot of voltage drop and eventually failed. The BatteryGuard is better and provides over-current disconnect as well as over/under V disconnect (programmable)
Cost
--
Dale |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I run a lithium battery also. What you need is an isolator with a signal wire. Just use the blue wire off the alternator, which is only charged when the alternator is turning. Connect this to the energize wire of the solenoid. Any solenoid isolator will work fine for this purpose |
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OldSpice Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2015 Posts: 178 Location: 87 syncro westfalia Subaru ez30
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I have always wanted a light weight battery but waiting for charging technology to catch up- are we there yet ?? |
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justdale Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 4 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Pcforno wrote: |
I run a lithium battery also. What you need is an isolator with a signal wire. Just use the blue wire off the alternator, which is only charged when the alternator is turning. Connect this to the energize wire of the solenoid. Any solenoid isolator will work fine for this purpose |
Do you also run a solar setup? _________________ Dale
'88 Syncro Westy, full camper, 1.8T |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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No - my camping habits are that I usually drive at least every day or every other day so I don't need it as the drive quickly recharges the batteries. I'm running 80 amp/hr total so it would take me more than three days without driving to deplete the battery |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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justdale wrote: |
Hi all, De-lurking to see if anyone else is running a lithium aux battery
Cons (so far):
..... Cost
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Indeed. I was surprised to see how much just a 50 AH battery is:
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/product/12v-50ah-lithium-ion-battery.php
but then it has a built in battery protection system so that adds to cost.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Yes but don't forget, all the amp hours are usable, unlike AGM or lead acid where less than 50% is usuable. Then there's lifespan- it's lasts at least double if not triple as long. So an apples to apples comparison would be the cost of 2 or 3 100 amp hour conventional batteries. If you figure all that together lithium is actually cheaper. they also weigh almost nothing, compared to lead acid or Agm which are heavier than 2 mountain bikes...
This may help
https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/ |
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4x4BNB Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012 Posts: 274 Location: PNW
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I believe AGM is 80% _________________ Click to view image |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Yes for a true deep cycle (AGM or FLA) 80% DoD is possible, but will dramatically decrease lifespan even further conpared with 50% DoD. |
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pablum Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2015 Posts: 562
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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The economics of this market are dizzying. A 5V x 13Ah Li battery pack goes for about $30 (although it'll only do about 5 amps total.) Do the math and it's about half.
Https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Z9QVE4Q/ref=psdc_7073960011_t1_B0194WDVHI _________________ The wise man learns from history, the fool from experience.
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I see [a cat] in the street and i aim for the pest with my car. -- bluebus86 |
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baltik Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2015 Posts: 440
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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What battery are you using? |
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justdale Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 4 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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baltik wrote: |
What battery are you using? |
In my case it is 100Ah set of cells and controller from Detlev (International Auto in Livermore CA). _________________ Dale
'88 Syncro Westy, full camper, 1.8T |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I have one 50 amp smart battery and 2 20 amp smart batteries totaling 90 amps all sitting sideways- they fit perfectly in the battery tray under the drivers seat. I removed the central sheet metal between the seat sliders and was able to fit a charger and a battery isolator in there as well. |
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Tobias Duncan Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1391 Location: Taos NM
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Bumping an old thread to find out if more people have gone to this.
Has the price come down a bit?
Safety?
Sure seems like a nice bit of gear for our rigs. |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I’m currently installing Li batteries. I’m going with two “Battle Born” 100 Ah batteries. They are $950/ea. The other brand I was considering was “ReLiOn”, but their 100 Ah batteries are about $1250/ea. Price wasn’t the only determining factor. Most of these batteries have built in charge controllers and other tech. Battle Born sells “bundle” packages with options like Victron brand monitoring equipment as well as Zamp solar controllers. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD
Last edited by ThankYouJerry on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I also have two Battle Born 100 ah batteries. It’s overkill and I’m sure one would work fine. After a lengthy camping season, I am very happy with the batteries. I have them under the rear bench seat. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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^^^
When you say “overkill” what do you mean? What 12v accessories are you running (fridge, Propex, etc) and how long do they run before needing to be recharged? _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7479 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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jmillsj wrote: |
I also have two Battle Born 100 ah batteries. It’s overkill and I’m sure one would work fine. After a lengthy camping season, I am very happy with the batteries. I have them under the rear bench seat. |
I was wondering about LiPo amp requirements given the ability to discharge them up to 75% compared to about 30% for lead acid batteries. I currently have 150 ah of house battery (and about 150 watts of solar panels, only 75 watts permanently mounted) running a fridge and Propex in the winter and the batteries run down to 12.4 volts more often than I'd like.
It would be great to easily camp for 3-4 days (no Propex) with 75 watts of solar and a 100 ah battery. I'd also like to reduce battery space and weight in the van.
What have you been running on the batteries, how many days do you go w/out starting the engine and do you have any solar panels? _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I run a truck fridge, lights, charge computers, phones, iPads, etc. I also have a 400 watt inverter for charging items. When my propane stopped working on the original fridge I started to think about a better house battery. When I come home from a long weekend, I’m still at 99% capacity, so I believe I overbuilt it.
I don’t charge it from the alternator. Instead, I have an onboard charger I use to top off before trips. I have solar, with one fixed 100 watt panel and one 100 watt portable. I don’t see a need for a connection to my alternator at this time. The house battery is not connected to the start battery and I use the house battery for all power needs in the camper section. I plan to install a propex heater under my truck fridge, but don’t have it in yet. I should have ample power for it.
My wife is a bit of a workaholic, so we needed lots of power so she can keep working when we camp. Don’t worry, though, I balance out that workaholic tendency of my wife and focus more on not working.
My last trip of the season we also used the inverter to charge an electronic mountain bike a friend brought. That drew my batteries down to 92% after a long weekend. Still overbuilt, but happy with it. I think I have a few weeks worth of energy if the sun failed to shine, which is unlikely in Colorado. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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jmillsj Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2017 Posts: 110 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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One last note on solar - I have all the components, but have not yet installed them, so my batteries are not getting charged on my trips yet. That project is coming in the spring when I get my Westy back from body and paint work. _________________ 1985 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
Vanagon owner since 1995 |
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