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Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!)
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Yarkle Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

So, theres a guy on my mail route who knows I have a VW thing and my son has a bus, and he comes up and says: "You arent looking for another project , are you?" I replied, "Well, not really, but you know my motto, why finish one project when you can start another?"

So i went down to his nephews house, and found this:

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Really sketchy paint job 'MURICA! and alot of body panel rust. But, for a new england bus, super solid underneath. Its got a porsche or 411 motor with a weber progressive on it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


well, 500 bucks later:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But, i got it for 500 bucks, so i figured might as well tinker with it.

Caleb has gone to college, so his bus is kind of on the back burner, and for now, my plan is just to tackle one project at a time and just get it so i can tool around town in it, instead of falling into the Sarlacc pit of "while i have this off, i might as well do this" with Calebs bus.

I only live 7/10s of a mile from work, so if i break down i can always walk home.

I have a TBI from getting blown up in Somalia, so I have concentration issues and get distracted very easily, so im just trying to do one thing at a time.

Its been sitting for several years..I remember Tcash suggesting doing an oil change on buses that have sat before you try and fiddle with them.

So today (after the bus sitting at my house since late August. when Robbie stopped by we tinkered with it a bit. I keep running into minor pitfalls. e.g. Didnt have any crush washers. Had to order them. Sent me wrong ones..etc.)

So, i started with this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


after a bit of cleanup, it looks better:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


oil didnt look too bad, dark but no obvious moisture in it or chunks, but the strainer plate had this really nasty thick sludge..maybe its never been off?:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The strainer didnt look too bad, but there was this one thing (on the left), kind of looked like a "pine spile"..really brittle..Dunno if it was maybe a shaving from the gasket? Gaskets were pretty much welded to the old strainer and the bottom of the case.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But i was super stoked that the case wasnt cracked by type 4 syndrome.

Comments? suggestions?

So the next phase, if the weather holds out is im going to:

1.clean up the engine bay as much as i can (it has stripped heater boxes--only the fins, no shells), get the leaves and whatnot out.
2. adjust the valves, get it up to operating temperature and then do a full compression test.
3. IF the compression is good, Ill kind of fiddle with it and track down the oil and exhaust leaks and finish compiling a dual carb setup and get the tin and seals sorted.

If it isnt I know a guy who has another 411 engine and a few cores i might be able to pick and chose from

4. Before i start it up again after getting it warmed up enough to do a proper compression test (and hoping i like the numbers) (and redrain the oil to get any more sludge out), im goign to change out the fuel lines and install a rotary pump, tee/regulator and the shutoff relay.

thats about as far as i can try to plan before it gets too involved an dhas too many moving parts.

Slow and steady

oh, yeah, we named it Urklegrue after the "german" lady Michael Scott was supposedly canoodling with on "the Office" at the Sandals beach instead of his boss.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP


Last edited by Yarkle on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
... Didnt have any crush washers. Had to order them. Sent me wrong ones..etc.) ...


I just went through a process of changing out several different styles of crush washers after an oil change and subsequent leak from the drain plug on my Vanagon. I found one type that is better than OG and I have seventeen left. Size is 14 -20 mm. Probably same for a bus.
https://www.amazon.com/Crushable-Gaskets-Plus-Part...k129040-20

from http://www.airheadparts.com/Copper-Sealing-Crush-Washer-14x20/item/N138152
"Always place the seam towards the Drain Plug when tightening."

This is TheSamba drain plug leak thread.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578126&highlight=oil+change

You'll be doing more oil changes in the future. Send me a PM with your address and I'll put some in the mail to you.

Aloha
tp
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Thanks Tom!

I did have another small victory with some help from Aeromech.

When i bought it, it wouldnt idle, and i was going to track down a vaccum leak. I had mentioned the brakes werent working, so he suggested the booster vac hose was probably the culprit.

The booster hose was what looks like a really small garden hose or radiator hose, so i cut it and shoved some earplugs in it, and now it idles fine.

That was one of the reasons the guy gave up on it, that and he couldnt get the brakes to bleed, so maybe ill tackle that once i get the other stuff done.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

new dilemma. Went to do a valve adjustment, and went on the great hunt for a 22mm wrench (or spanner as the guy on youtube says).

then i ran into this: (sorry, im a horrible photographer,,i didnt realize how fuzzy it weas until i uploaded it, now its dark. its kind of like theres one mark (left), then a vampire teeth looking mark (center), then another mark, with the yellow spot (right)))

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


instead of a timing mark, there seems to be three in close proximity. the yellow spot has a matching yellow spot at 180 degrees.

the engine is out of a 411 or porsche, and there isnt an inspection plug on top of the fan shroud.

any ideas on which mark to use?

i tried the writeup on ratwell, but i couldnt "feel" any notch on the other side, but it "seems" like there might be a faint scribe in line with the yellow spot.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Nice "The Office" reference.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

ok, after some minor puttering this morning, i think the "vampire teeth mark" is at 180 degrees. I turned the engine over with my 22mm "spanner" and when i got to what i thought "should" be TDC, the rotor was pointing in the wrong direction.

So lining it up with the rotor at #1, the yellow paint spot on what i thought was 180 degrees was at 0 on the scale. When i lined it up with the bosses for the fan cage and the timign scale, i noticed that the yellow spot wasnt lined up with the other yellow spot, but the vampire teeth.

What i "think" the notches on the pulley are for is maybe 5 or 7 Before, what should be 0 (vampire teeth) and maybe 5 or 7 after?

Can you install these fans 180 degrees off?

or is it just some bizareness?

Im not super worried about timing at the moment, i just really want to adjust the valves so i can get a good compression test on it before i decide how much further i want to get into the engine "for now".
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

None of those notches are timing marks, the "vampire" one is where the balance slug is crimped into the lip of the ring.
You are looking on the wrong edge, the single OG mark is very small and on the inner lip of the pulley, the edge that's against the shroud.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Hmmm...I tried using ratwells reference yesterday, but i just couldnt find it. OK, i "think" this is what im looking for:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


theres not one of these on my fan. I double checked the inside of the lip and i cant see it or feel it., I had my wife try with her fingernails and then i tried with a knife blade. Even ran a mirror up against it.

I used this thread as a reference, and it just confused me even more:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6617648#6617648

So i pulle dout the #1 spark plug and had my wife turn it over and stuck my finger to plug the hole, but it seemed it was firing on #2, not #1. So then i tried the straw test, and it seemd to be the same.

then i figured, well, everything else on this engine is a frankenstein, maybe its the Dizzy:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and this is what i came up with:

I dunno if its just just a weird distributor, or i just am reading the maps wrong, or it got put in weird, but #1 seems to be to the left of where it should be.

Using the ratwell reference as a guide, it "seems" like the yellow paint spot to the right of the vampire teeth is the actual TDC mark.

thats where the compression built up when i had my finger in it, and where it gripped the straw the best, and the rotor is pointing at the notch (i couldnt see it before because i wasnt looking in the right place and its kindof shadowy in that part right now)

it seems like its about 2 and a half fan blades (between 2 and 3) to the right of the thicker part where the bolt is?

Using the other fan i have as a guide

DOWH!!!! i didnt look all the way down on the ratwell page., just the first picture...he didnt explicity say it, but if you count the blades its pretty close.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Don't count on distributor position, not everyone orients the drive correctly. Do that finger test for compression again on #1 and stop when you reach that mark you found, wherever the rotor is pointing is where the #1 plug wire goes.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue 1973 Bus Build Thread (im gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

YES! that all just kind of lined up now.

The distributor (an 009 or clone) does have the notch so its pointing to #1, its just in a weird place. I matched it up with a dual vac dizzy i have for later, and just going by where the bolt is, its about 90 degrees clockwise from the dual vac ones indicator mark.

Thanks busdaddy!

Of course, now ive got somewheres i have to go so i cant set the valves, but at least i have it figured out for next time.

On the plus side, no oil leaks from the oil change from last week.

and, in honor (or being irked by) of the Frankenstein nature of this Bus, Ive added "Von Frankenstein" to her name.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

I always forget this, but when 1 is at top of compression, 2 exhuaust valve opens making it easy to confirm?? I think it's #2? Turning counterclockwise..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Don't forget to read this!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664146&highlight=strainer+torque
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

CurtP..I read that before i touched anything..im still afraid of that nut.

ok, two questions:

1. im ditching the progressive carb and am going with a complete 1972 oil bath setup, correct manifolds, funky bar, etc.. do i need an accelerator cable for a 1972 or a 1973-74?

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2. Im looking at repairing the rust around the rear wheel wells (well, lots of rust repair, its a new england bus) it LOOKS like the rust is mainly in the lower part and doesnt hit the "flare" too much..would i be better off getting thicker justkampers panels for 68-71 that dont have the flare (which im not sure id really need) (i highlighted in yellow what im generally talking about)
or fighting with the "correct" klokkerholm panels?

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Ive already got the nice Cip doglegs for the front, i just figured the wheel arches might be an easier place to start. Im trying to find some doors i can just bolt on
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Cut out/grind off the paint and figure out how bad it really is. Then order your part.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:

im going with a complete 1972 oil bath setup, correct manifolds, funky bar, etc.. do i need an accelerator cable for a 1972 or a 1973-74?


Now that these cars are becoming more rare, I would recommend that you get the 1973 manifolds and paper cartridge air filter box plus brake booster balance pipe, etc. and be ready to sell the '72 specific equipment to those who wish to retrofit their '72 bus with the factory carburetor set-up.

In 1972, the carburetor engineering was smashed flat against the engine because the engine compartment did not yet have the ceiling access.

Your bus does. It is a joy to work on the '73/'74 carburetors with the additional room afforded by having the carbs sit a half foot higher off the engine.
Colin

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:
Cut out/grind off the paint and figure out how bad it really is. Then order your part.


SPike, so it is technically possible to use the earlier, thicker gauge rerpro part as long as the "lip " isnt too bad? (right now i got to work when its dark and come home when its dark and the boys bus is in the garage, so im just trying to think ahead, but maybe ill get to cutting some of it this weekend.)

Amskeptic wrote:

It is a joy to work on the '73/'74 carburetors with the additional room afforded by having the carbs sit a half foot higher off the engine


Colin, thanks for your advice and encouragement. If it wasnt for your writeup on the topic id probably have just stuck with the progressive. I had thought of trying to go with the 73-74 setup, but a few things stopped me:

1. this.. pretty much the biggest reason. Its harder for me to work through the hatch than the decklid. I have to wear braces with hinges from bad things happening so I kind of like the decklid better. Ive tried all sorts of stuff but sitting on a milk crate seems to work the best for me

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


(thanks everett for fixing that pic for me)

2. Ive always liked an oil bath better than a paper filter (kind of last reason)

3. middle reason, i just couldnt find a 73+ setup in decent shape. The 72 setup was almost entirely complete and sort of fell into my lap (and i got it super cheap), but i still had to chase a few things for it,, all of the 73 stuff id have had to buy this to get that and Robbie can already tell you of my collection of carbs (that has grown since hes seen it ..kind of like ebneneezer scrooges chain, except mine is solex carbs). Any time i found the plastic filter housing it was cracked here or missing that or whatevs. AND i JUST bought the 72 vac kit from germansupplyscott

ANYWAYS:

That said, do i need a 72 cable or a 73 cable? is the difference in length due to the difference in early /late bay pedal (i thought the 72 was in the late bay category) or due to the funky twist in the link bar?
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
Its harder for me to work through the hatch than the decklid.
2. I like oil bath better than paper
ANYWAYS:
do i need a 72 cable or a 73 cable?


'72 cable. 211721555J
Colin
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Thanks Colin, i just ordered it! We got a half foot of snow last night but im hoping to get something accomplished on monday
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] Urklegrue thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Damn dirty hippies.

Prior to my ownership, they did that to my Bus before they abandoned it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Urklegrue Von Frankenstein 1973 Bus (gonna need alot of help!) Reply with quote

Yarkle wrote:
Thanks Colin, i just ordered it! We got a half foot of snow last night but im hoping to get something accomplished on monday


Half a foot of snow is my cue to hibernate.

That 1500 engine I had to swap out in the snow at 6* at UConn Storrs in 1978, that was IT for me. It was a '66 Westy with noo heat no how no way.
Colin48*InAtlanta
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