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Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please!
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I would mention that the length of tubing from air cleaner to compressor inlet is irrelevant to engine operation provided it is adequately sized to flow the necessary air. On the other hand, any additional length to the the tubing from compressor outlet to intercooler to intake manifold increases turbo lag. Because of this, on the inline 4 VW engines, it makes more sense to me to install the intercooler on the driver's side with very short runs from turbo to intercooler to intake, and install the air cleaner on the passenger side with the longer run.
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

It's a nice fit for the vanagon I think! I had to do some shaving to get the fit right also.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I like it! The turbo to IC is right there and same with the intake. Just looks a lot cleaner than the SAAB did to me.

Not that the SAAB doesn't work well, if the Renault didn't fit so well, I'd go back that route.

dkoesyncro wrote:
It's a nice fit for the vanagon I think! I had to do some shaving to get the fit right also.

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rotaecho
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Finished product!

The IC mounted with a bracket for easy removal:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The IC installed

1 x 2.25” to 2” 45deg reducer
1 x 2.25” to 2” 90deg reducer
1 x 2” short 90 degree elbow
1 x 2” 90 degree elbow 4” per a leg trimmed

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The vent goes directly to the top of the IC. The IC then drops the air into the engine bay which I assume gets sucked out into the street while driving.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

There is another PD intake manifold that has the inlet facing the opposite direction. Using that version would significantly reduce the boosted volume, increase turbo response and save some engine compartment real estate.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Now that I'm seeing that. The PD150 shown below would be the best route.

How much difficulty would it be to replace the intake without removing the exhaust? Going off of memory seems like the exhaust would have to come down too.

http://s204.photobucket.com/user/fenwick458/media/IMG_0182.jpg.html

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
There is another PD intake manifold that has the inlet facing the opposite direction. Using that version would significantly reduce the boosted volume, increase turbo response and save some engine compartment real estate.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I finally build a sturdy mount for my intercooler. Had a number of failed brackets.
This is the most solid. Easy to install. Easy to adjust. And very cheap. At some point I’ll swap out th plywood for a machine metal bar with a pivot and may. Plastic casing.

This is a Renault intercooler. First perfectly in D pillar. Only had to bend part of the body panel support. It’s still sting and not a big deal.

I used 1/4” carriage bolt. Drilled hole in plywood. Washer on either side. Nut to secure it. Then 1/4” hole in floor panel. I username fender washer with rubber washer underneath. 2 x 1/4” nuts to adjust tension and lock it in place. The carriage bolt sticks out the hole of body panel and prevent it from moving. This idea Ian like a scissor jack to keep the intercooler in place. This is totally solid. No play at all. Th back of it just wedges in place. I used foam on tha sides and top to Mae a seal against D pillar.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Have u run it yet? Will there be a fan? See any drops in egt? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I have been using the intercooler for years. It just kinda sat in place with tha hoses keeping it up. Eventually I used a 2x4 to prop it in place. Well, sort of in place. It always had crazy amounts of blow by, so probably didn’t do a whole lot, other than being a heat sink.

Now it’s solidly in place and should have a good amount of air travelling through it.

Not planning on using a fan. Haven’t seen a difference in egt since being solidly mounted like this.

Had considered a scoop. But that would get ripped off by trees while driving down narrow Forrest service roads.

I imagine while on motion, it should have ok airflow.

It would be interesting to have pre and post air temps. But that’s a lot of extra money for gauges, sensors and fittings.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Quote:
IMO one of the greatest challenges when going with an air to air intercooler is that it eliminates the use of the d-pillar for intake air. If aux oil cooler is placed on the right side of the engine and intercooler on the left there's no easy place to get clean cool intake air.


Gotta figure out how to grab intake air from upstream of the Hx. All my oil cooler kits provide that. If it seems impossible or impractical, you just haven't worked the problem enough.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

So I just did the Renault intercooler in the D pillar. I haven't run the full range of tests, but I'm definitely seeing lower intake air temps based on my normal driving around town.

I'll give a quick description, and then below I'll describe an issue I'm having that some of you might be able to help me with.

This van is a syncro with an ALH motor mounted in the 15 degree orientation using the original Fast Forward kit. The motor is the stock tune as far as I can tell. The conversion was done in 2005 in by a reputable shop in Oregon. When I got the van the stock intercooler was mounted on the passenger side of the engine compartment, about 2 inches from the motor nestled in and around some nice hot coolant hoses. With that setup, I would get IAT read by Scangauge in the high 100's in summer mountain driving, with some spikes over 200 degrees.

With the new Renault setup, the highest I've seen climbing a mountain in cooler spring weather has been around 125, about 30-40 degrees below what the stock setup would do on the same hill.

To mount the IC I cut a hole in the floor of the D pillar and mounted an 8" puller fan under the intercooler. I bent some aluminum sheet material to mount the IC in place and isolate the IC air flow and route it downward. I also put an alumnimum shield under the fan for flying rocks. I welded on the mounting plate for the MAP sensor directly to the IC.

A few photos...

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So the issue I'm having is some noise on heavy pulls at max boost, 10-16 psi. The noise wasn't there before, it started with the addition of this new intercooler and re-locating the intake. It almost sounds like a belt shrieking, or intense air rushing. Happens mostly in 3rd gear and only when I get on the throttle, pushing 12 psi or more, under load for sure. Scangauge looks like this to get the noise:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It goes away immediately when I let up on throttle.
I've isolated the noise to the Renault intercooler. I eliminated all other causes: I've swapped intakes from K/N type to Donaldson, (also no intake!), pressure tested the boost hoses and intercooler, ran without the accessory belts, all to no effect. The turbo is fairly new with little play in the shaft, feels solid to me.
The only way I was able to make the noise go away was to plumb a bypass around the intercooler.

It almost sounds like a fin or something internal could be loose, causing a resonance, or an obstruction, or I don't know. I'm open to suggestions. I bought this a while ago from some Ebay seller, a Chinese special I'm sure. Just curious if anyone else finds it annoyingly noisy under load?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Could it be something to do with the mod to the IC for your MAP sensor?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

I had this intercooler similar mounting too! I built a rounded floor in the D pillar, hoping it'd cool the exhaust as well. It took 9 wks to get it from china

I had a horrible resonance with this IC, I suspect it was the fin design. Very minimal interface, very low to nil pressure drop. I later built a custom one from the TDI and it performed really well and quieter.
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

beach_creature wrote:
Could it be something to do with the mod to the IC for your MAP sensor?


I hadn't thought of that, but if all else fails I could move the MAP to a post-IC intake pipe. But based on dkoesyncro's response perhaps some of these IC's are noisy for this application? Thanks for the response.
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
I had this intercooler similar mounting too! I built a rounded floor in the D pillar, hoping it'd cool the exhaust as well. It took 9 wks to get it from china

I had a horrible resonance with this IC, I suspect it was the fin design. Very minimal interface, very low to nil pressure drop. I later built a custom one from the TDI and it performed really well and quieter.


To clarify, the Renault style IC was noticably noisy? Do you have any photos of what you replaced it with? How's performance with your custom one? Thanks for the input.
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Let’s talk about the effectiveness of an a2a intercooler.

I have an all aluminum Saab a2a in my d pillar with a small 9”puller fan venting out the bottom of the pillar. The fan is switched.

At idle ECU reads IAC at 158’. Can’t remember exact temp. Outside temp was like 70’. Van was somewhat heat soaked.

Should turning on the fan reduce IACs while at idle over a period of 5-8 minutes? I didnot time it as I was chatting on the phone on the side of the road.

Two degrees drop! Does that sound reasonable to anyone?

I was gobsmacked.
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Ron, that would seem right to me, given the explained circumstances.

IMO, the aic is such a fickle experiment to really gain any kind of cooling. It's in the DPillar, usually exhaust or a cat is mounted close, and the counter flow head guys have the intake butted up with the exhaust manifold. Cooling can be done and it has with success.
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

Hey Dylan. Are you thinking that the ram air of the vehicle moving will provide much more cooling versus just the puller fan?
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please! Reply with quote

With a scoop one would assume yes, but the scoop will add noise. The noise is air passing through the duct. We need sodo to chime in and do the math of "caught air via ram" at "what speed" is equal to "cfm".

Air in an intake manifold acts like a spring, it's why the ports/runners are gradual/swept or mandrel exhaust flows so well. The D pillar is challenging. Years ago, I talked with Bell intercoolers and Hans"?" an engineer speculated that the vanagon D pillar works like a vacuum at speeds, pulling hot air out. Who knows, a whole nother page exists on this debate.

I am going to use an air/water IC next go around. I will mount the heat exchanger up front just like the radiator.
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