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The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle
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H2OSB
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Although I prefer the curved window Supers, I have no issue with the flat window variety. Oddly enough, I usually prefer the look of the 1302s in pictures, though I don't know why.

I like all years of Beetle (well, ok, not a fan of the watercooled Beetles, but that's just MY opinion). I started my journey into the VW world from the watercooled end, and I autocrossed the GTI I used to own, so when I was looking into what year(s) of Beetle to consider, the better handling cars were the natural choice for me. Like many of the unknowing (back then), I couldn't tell the difference betwixt a Standard or Super so I could never understand the disdain many Beetle fans have/had for the Supers. Knowing what I know now, I've grown to love the look of the curved window Supers and prefer them over any other year. I currently own 2 '74s and a '73 but the ultimate Super, to me, would be a '75 due to the rack & pinion steering.

johnL (aka H2OSB)
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Is the steering easier on the rack and pinion. I've never owned a VW with other than worm and roller, so I wonder what the improvement is with r&p.

Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I think the rack and pinion steering simple steering setup knocked out about half of the shimmy. The steering is delightful light with road feel. I would seriously consider a '75 Super sedan without a sunroof (sorry, not a personal fan of holes in the roof, canvas or metal.)

For now I'll keep driving my '57 Bug -- oh, there is a riff there too, with the '55 down looked upon more favorably by some. I actually sought a later oval, cause I wanted an oval as a kid (could not afford it) and wanted the easier to get parts for type so I could drive it with less concern.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

1st generation new beetle?

Going by depreciation alone, think that that is the clear winner for the "worst year" title.

What do you all think?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

H2OSB wrote:
... I currently own 2 '74s and a '73 but the ultimate Super, to me, would be a '75 due to the rack & pinion steering.

johnL (aka H2OSB)
www.superbeetlesonly.com


I'm with you - I love my '72 "1302" Super and just picked up a '74 project, but my dream is a '75 Super LaGrande edition w/the sun roof...either that or a '74 Sunbug Super like Tim's. All are hard to find out East, between old man winter and '70's death foam, not many left.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Globespotter wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


BEAUTIFUL. That is an amazing Super. Possibly the nicest one I've ever seen in pictures...

Just needs some mud flaps and a touch of extra chrome... Wink
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'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
... I didn't buy it because it was an investment that might raise in value. I bought it because I wanted to own and drive a bug.

Tim


What he said. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

itskyle wrote:
1st generation new beetle?

Going by depreciation alone, think that that is the clear winner for the "worst year" title.

What do you all think?


I bought a 1998 New Beetle (1st year). It was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

vamram wrote:

BEAUTIFUL. That is an amazing Super. Possibly the nicest one I've ever seen in pictures...


Thanks vamram. I have the original owner to thank for that.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

To me the 1302 is the ultimate development of the Beetle (at least in Australia). In Australia we never had padded dashboards on 1302 Beetles which were called "Volkswagen S".

Key reasons for it being ultimate are:
1) Flat windscreen.
2) Metal dashboard.
3) 1600cc Twin port motor.
4) Front disc brakes.
5) Macpherson strut front suspension with improved luggage capacity.
6) Double joint rear suspension.
7) Flow through ventilation.

What more could you want.

I had a 1972 Aqua Blue/Cream interior version back in the late 1970's.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Globespotter wrote:
I bought a 1998 New Beetle (1st year). It was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned.


Me too. I got the 3rd or 4th one delivered in my area. I was excited -- for a while. Then it started falling apart. I had a lot of warranty work done on it but the worst problems came right after the warranty expired. I took a bath on it when I finally traded it in on a Hyundai.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

René R. wrote:
Globespotter wrote:
I bought a 1998 New Beetle (1st year). It was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned.


Me too. I got the 3rd or 4th one delivered in my area. I was excited -- for a while. Then it started falling apart. I had a lot of warranty work done on it but the worst problems came right after the warranty expired. I took a bath on it when I finally traded it in on a Hyundai.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I rented a 2012 new beetle on vacation that year. I was curious as I'd never driven a new beetle before. OMG, what a cheap, plastic, rattle inducing, underpowered piece of shit it was. It only reinforced why I'd never buy a "new" VW.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Globespotter wrote:


I bought a 1998 New Beetle (1st year). It was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned.


What was wrong with it? My buddies wife has a Gen 2 and she likes it. I drove it once at night. Instrument panel seemed dark to me and I felt like I was a mile away from the windshield, but it seemed to drive OK. Only negative I've ever heard about them is the automatic transmissions are suspect.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I love them all...especially whichever one I currently own. Including this 72 Super.
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H2OSB
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
Is the steering easier on the rack and pinion. I've never owned a VW with other than worm and roller, so I wonder what the improvement is with r&p.

Tim


Easier is not quite the word I'd use. It's more precise lock to lock. Honestly if you try to rotate the steering wheel when not rolling, to me, it feels a bit heavier, but on the move, it feels like power steering.

Nothing really wrong with the steering box of the earlier Supers, but to have it perfect, the sweet spot is MINUTE (my-noot). It's pretty easy to have precise steering in the middle of the range OR near both locks. However, where ever it's well adjusted (outside or betwixt the locks), the opposite area will feel a bit vague. When everything is new and tight you wouldn't notice and it comes on very gradually as parts wear, so the vagueness goes unnoticed.

Based on the design of the R&P, it's the same feel from lock to lock, and the Super rack is quite nice. Though it's possible to retrofit one on an earlier car, it's not a simple bolt on, and finding a good working rack for a reasonable price is not common. The Super R&P does wear, but again, due to the design, the wear will be the same across the entire steering range (I didn't want to say lock to lock again).

For the record, if one were to need to replace the frame head, regardless if you have the early or late suspension, all replacement Super Beetle frame heads are clearanced for R&P.

That all said, I will make due with my '74 1303. Worm and roller vs. R&P is among the last things I'd consider if I were shopping for a car. More gains can be made by replacing all of the front suspension bushings with urethane than swapping from W&R to R&P.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

So, basically, r&p drives more like power steering; plus the wear is even, as opposed to spotty.

Thanks for the explanation.

Tim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Thank you folks for the great feedback and all the replys!
IMHO the thread perfectly illustrates the quite different meaning and usage of the term 'value'...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

My turbo 1.8 New Beetle ragtop kicks butt and makes me smile winter or summer. 2002, first year of Vert...bought it instead of MB or Volvo and am still banking the 40k I saved plus interest.
33 mpg, cool in summer, hot in winter, and top down otherwise...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I found it a real challenge to find any bug that was in reasonably good condition at my price here in PA. An undervalued 73 SB got me into the project. The money I saved went into parts and therapy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: The least-valued beetle in VW history: the 1302 Super Beetle Reply with quote

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Here's my 71 and it handles much better than my 73 standard Jeff
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