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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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I had an engine rebuild in my 1973 Thing a short while ago and I notice that the fan shroud has a short, half-inch diameter metal outlet protruding from it (see image with that outlet arrowed, below) that has no hose on it. I am curious about exactly what it is for and want to identify it before I arbitrarily cap it off. I notice that the Super-Beetle engine also seem to have this fan shroud outlet. Can anyone identify this for me? Also below is an engine diagram (Super-Beetle) from a VW driver manual that shows the same outlet, but does not identify it.
_________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Ron Domeck Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007 Posts: 1466 Location: louisville Ky
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Hooks up to the plastic canister by the trans to the right. This is all part of the vapor recover system from the gas tank. |
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GI Joe Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 2012 Location: Athens, TN
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Ron Domeck Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007 Posts: 1466 Location: louisville Ky
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Joe, I thought the plastic canister had 2 hoses. One went to the shroud and one to the air cleaner. When the engine runs it sucks ? or pushes? the vapors and sends them to the air cleaner. Maybe I smelled too much paint thinner today. |
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Ron Domeck Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007 Posts: 1466 Location: louisville Ky
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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The fan pushes to the canister and blows into the air cleaner back into the carb. Found a chart for the system. |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Ron: You say you found a chart for the system. Can you share that w/us? Is it 'postable' as an image or diagram, or is there perhaps a URL that takes one to it? Any help in that regard would be most appreciated so that I can get a better idea as to how the entire system functions. Things like this drive me crazy until I finally get a grip on the entire concept. Thanks. _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Let me answer my own question here, since I seem to have found a reference explaining in detail what Ron just mentioned. The Bentley manual also has a good set of diagrams of this circuit, which pertains to and is part of the evaporative emission control system. Basically, the fan shroud upper right connector is indeed an outlet (not an inlet) and air is blown into a medium diameter hose that enters one side of the activated charcoal canister (canister inlet). On the other end of that canister is another equal diameter hose that takes the vapors from the canister and empties them into the inlet connection on the left rear of the upper section of the oil-bath air cleaner. [Fuel vapors in the tank are vented into the charcoal canister via a third, smaller line from the tank.]
If one decides to deactivate the evaporative emissions control system, then both the fan shroud (blown) outlet AND the upper end air cleaner inlet must be blocked off (to preserve cooling in the fan shroud system AND vacuum in the air cleaner circuit). The fuel tank vapor line may also be blocked off, as well.
You can see the documentation in reference, as well as the entire Rob & Dave paper here: http://www.vw-resource.com/air_cleaner.html _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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PS: Many thanks for the help, guys! Sometimes it helps to have a few others weigh into on the possibilities to help me clarify things. I have a stock air-cleaner set-up on my Thing which I want to keep intact. Those individuals with after-market air cleaners have generally done away with all the 'stock' outlet & inlet lines (from the vapor recovery components) by preference, so unless one very painstakingly pursues the proper documentation on the original config, these little 'stock' set-up details can become somewhat elusive over time. Now I can sleep soundly tonight, knowing that my air cleaner misunderstandings have also been 'put to bed'.
PSS: Since I was working on my VeeDub this afternoon, I missed out on the basketball (or is it soccer? I always get them confused) 'Super Bowl' that everyone seems to be watching. Never was much of a pro sports fan, I'm ashamed to admit. _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Here's a picture of the activated charcoal (evaporative emissions control system) canister in reference, that shows the hoses discussed. #1 & #2 are the lines carrying fuel vapors from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister. Line # 3 is the exit hose that runs into the upper air cleaner and #4 is the inlet line from the fan shroud to the canister.
_________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Al Capulco Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Northridge, CA.
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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May not be a great idea to block off the vapor line at the gas tank. You could under the right circumstances, ruin the gas tank. The gas tank must be vented. |
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GI Joe Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 2012 Location: Athens, TN
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Wow..... I guess 3hrs sleep over a weekend is Not the best time to give advice...... sorry y'all....
I woke up during my short time of actually sleep last night with a vision of the rotation of the fan, and the clearest image of that port being an Outlet....
So, I'll. Walk out of this conversation backwards, for dramatic affect, and leave you adults to come up with correct answers......
Good day... _________________ '74 Thing, "Our Thing"....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60
'71 Beetle RPU
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8080337#8080337
www.NLEOMF.com
Respect, Honor, Remember |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Al Capulco wrote: |
May not be a great idea to block off the vapor line at the gas tank. You could under the right circumstances, ruin the gas tank. The gas tank must be vented. |
Thanks. Excellent correction! Agreed that the fuel tank should retain ventilation. I seem to have reflextively included the fuel tank's venting capability in my general enthusiasm for capping off all 'unnecessary' thingamabobs & doodads, hee-hee. _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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GI Joe wrote: |
Wow..... I guess 3hrs sleep over a weekend is Not the best time to give advice...... sorry y'all....
I woke up during my short time of actually sleep last night with a vision of the rotation of the fan, and the clearest image of that port being an Outlet....
So, I'll. Walk out of this conversation backwards, for dramatic affect, and leave you adults to come up with correct answers......
Good day... |
Joe...don't worry. I am myself known for total functional atrophy after periods of sleep deprivation...and sometimes even after having had a full 12 hours of sleep! In fact I once famously mistook at a distance a Citroen 2CV for a Volkswagen some years ago in Europe (admittedly it was after Oktoberfest and I wasn't certain at that time if I was in Munchen or in Antarctica, LoL). My German friends were highly affronted, needless to relate! Scheiss in der Lederhosen! _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Windisch wrote: |
Al Capulco wrote: |
May not be a great idea to block off the vapor line at the gas tank. You could under the right circumstances, ruin the gas tank. The gas tank must be vented. |
Thanks. Excellent correction! Agreed that the fuel tank should retain ventilation. I seem to have reflextively included the fuel tank's venting capability in my general enthusiasm for capping off all 'unnecessary' thingamabobs & doodads, hee-hee. |
The gas cap is vented, not a tight seal, so you are fine capping off all that stuff.
Non-vented tank wouldn't so much "ruin" a tank, but it could cause a vacuum lock in the fuel system and cause fuel starvation. Now too much pressure being forced into a sealed tank on the other hand could have some disastrous results! |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Bashr52 wrote: |
The gas cap is vented, not a tight seal, so you are fine capping off all that stuff.
Non-vented tank wouldn't so much "ruin" a tank, but it could cause a vacuum lock in the fuel system and cause fuel starvation. Now too much pressure being forced into a sealed tank on the other hand could have some disastrous results! |
Roger that, Bashr52. Thanks for that important additional information. Cheers. PS: Whomever that is in your 'icon', I think I'm in love again. If she's yours, please accept my sincere apologies and substitute my profound envy! _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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Captain Spalding Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005 Posts: 2519 Location: . . . in denial.
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Hi. Sorry I'm late to the party. There's a diagram of the evaporative control system in the technical section.
I find it odd that the gas cap is vented. I mean, doesn't that defeat the purpose of all the evaporative control equipment? Maybe the vent in the gas cap works like a pressure relief valve. |
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Al Capulco Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Northridge, CA.
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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I think your right, it's spring loaded with a diaphragm . If the gas tank evaporative system is plugged off and you don't have the vented cap you could pull a vacuum on the system and ruin the gas tank. I know some people don't consider it vented, but I don't think it wise to use the other style caps. |
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Windisch Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2014 Posts: 343 Location: Sacramento, CA 95822
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud upper right outlet? What's it for? |
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Thanks for that excellent diagram. It's things like that that are so helpful in trying to get a grip on the logistics of a system. This makes it all quite clear and, best of all, it IS 'Thing' specific. Cheers! _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...
[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...] |
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