DIY Power Window Switch Relocations

[h00drat]

So I've been dealing with slow/inconsistent power windows since I got my van. The passenger side was always slow and the drivers side didn't work at all.

I rebuilt the drivers side motor and it started working, but inconsistently.

So I moved on to the switches. I have the passenger side switches working, but the drivers side is still giving me grief. If you ever want a test in patience, try taking one of these switches apart and putting it back together successfully

Anyway...I'm considering switch relocation. However I am a cheap ass when it comes to some things, and I just can't imagine this kit is really worth the $110 that GoWesty wants for it, and I can't find an alternative.

It seams that this relocation could be done with two 3 way switches from NAPA and a bit of wiring. I am surprised nobody has done a write up on it. I would gladly do the write up after doing it if anybody had guidance on the wiring.

Anybody?

Based on this information, it's a much more complicated system than it needs to be. Or at least more complicated than my simple mind thinks it should be.

_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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[16CVs]

I use an aftermarket express ' Up/Down" module mounted in the door below the vent glass. You have to run a dedicated power wire to it from the fuse block or another power source. One of the nice things about them is that when working properly you can use 14/18 ga wire from the switches and eliminate the horrible wire mess associated with the stock system.
Besides the obvious advantage of putting 12V as close to the motor as you can, you also add the convenience of express up and down.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[Gnarlodious]

I am disabled and can’t reach over the passenger seat to roll up the window, so I put a power window in my ’83:

Switch is positioned between the radio and lighter plug outlet. Got it from eBay and has a built-in light for ease of finding at night. Passengers just have to get used to remembering where it is. Its wired in full time so I don’t need to turn the key on. This is really the ideal location because if I am lounging in the back I can push it up/down with a long stick. Good idea with the sudden thunderstorms we get in New Mexico.
_________________
Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[jimf909]

[h00drat]

These are all great reasons to consider this upgrade.

Any more detail into the wiring of an aftermarket switch? I like the idea of constant power.
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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[rmcd]

[h00drat]

I just pulled that diagram from a Google search.
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
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[T3 Pilot]

Bentley 97.187
_________________
1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......

[rmcd]

[h00drat]

[16CVs]

My first test of window operation is to put 12 volts directly to the Red and Black window motor wires. Reverse your connection and it goes the other way. If the windows don't work from this point, there is not point in replacing switches or doing anything else.
I am using the stock switches. I use a module like this "DEI 535T" which will operate both window express up and down.
There are other units which only control one window per unit which I prefer. I have used the the 535T and like it except the "double click to make it stop where you want it to.
There is a bit of wiring involved, so not for the faint of heart. It's all straight forward really. Because I have spare motors and switches I have made mine plug and play with the no wire cutting needed which makes it nice to go back if need be.
I currently use a TW1A, but they have not been around for years. These work great but require a dedicated and direct 12V feed to each unit. This took me a while to figure out as originally I was tapping off of the power door lock hot wire, That did not always work well as it has a narrow voltage band and when it drops too low it starts to freak out.
I did find that the DES 535T was not as sensitive to volt drops and worked very well.
I also rewired some switches with much smaller gauge wires and it makes putting the door back together much easier.
I find relocating the switches to the dash to be uncomfortable to reach,I like the factory location for the switches and think they are perfectly located. The idea of dash mounted switches is brilliant as it eliminates a vast number of connections and gives the motors a much better supply of 12V.
Of course the perfect start is having properly serviced motors and regulators. Spending time going over the stock system connector by connector and cleaning grounds and positive connections make a huge difference. This system only has one Ground and 2 power sources and if they are dirty or the connectors work hardened they will not work properly.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[otiswesty]

Do you know any vendors that will do a window motor rebuild and deal with the wiring at the same time. My passenger side is slow as hell!
_________________
1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab

Just a regular guy

[16CVs]

I know you're just a normal guy, but have you tried going direct to the motor first?
Come to town and buy me dinner and maybe I'll look at it for you. I tell you, you should see how well my windows work.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[h00drat]

[16CVs]

You say that you do not care where the switches will be now, once you have to constantly reach for them your attitude will change. My first power window upgrade in my 85 had the switches on the dash by the heater vents. I hated the constant stretch to get to them. I had power windows in my 70 crew cab and had them in the door in the crank hole space at that was dreamy.
Take some masking tape and double it up and put it in different locations on the dash and go for a drive and reach for it as you drive and see how inconvenient it is compared to the stock location.
I think you'll spend less time tuning up your stock system then you will adapting some other Creative solution.
This kind of like taking the injection off your engine and putting carbs on it. It works OK but is just never quite the same.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[h00drat]

Good input stacy, and that makes sense. I'll do some switch research and see if I can find something that will work better with the stock wiring. I thought replacing the stock wiring might be more reliable by getting 12v closer to the motors.
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
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[otiswesty]

[h00drat]

Still struggling with this a bit. Just can't get any consistency in my stock system, even though I DID get my switches back together. The passenger side works consistently, just very slowly. The drivers side will go down okay, for the most part, but will only go up about a quarter of an inch before stopping.

I've put 12 volts straight to the motors, so I know they are good.

My options at this point are to A - try a modern switch replacement like the ones found at van cafe, even though shipping is a bear - http://www.van-cafe.com/page_718_598/budget-window-switch

or B try an automatic window unit like you suggested, Stacy. I guess my only question is whether or not a unit like the 535T comes with decent instructions or not. I'm fairly savvy with wiring, but not an expert.

Note - the cost for 3 "budget" switches including shipping is about the same as the 535T.

Thanks in advance for any final input.
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
Auto Trans Rebuild - Image Gallery

[h00drat]

Note - I'm leaning towards the 535T as it looks like a decent unit, however I am concerned over whether or not this will REALLY help if my switches aren't fully functioning? I suppose if I rewire everything, there is a better chance I will get 12 volts to the window motors.

12 volts to the 535T (new hot wire directly from the fuse box with a 20a fuse?)
New wires & connectors from the 535T to my switches
Success? Worst case, I have to buy new switches also and have a fully refreshed system I guess.

Also, depending on which available fuse block I tap into I might be able to get them to work without the key in the "on" position.

Based on the information in this thread, it looks like the "P" row on the fuse panel is constant, un fused 12v power - https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649210&highlight=

So if I tap into that and throw an inline 20a fuse in there, I should have a good solid power source to the 535T.
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
Auto Trans Rebuild - Image Gallery

[16CVs]

I used the power from the door locks, it seemed to work OK. They really do not want the unit in the door. I've done it with pretty good success. but be forewarned.
These are great units but are primarily designed for systems with switches on a console. At that point you only have a wires going into the door and your connections are all inside the car.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.