1963 15 Window resurrection

[Pinetops]

Love this pic

_________________
"A rolling bus gathers no rust."

[twowings]

It's not an accident that this bus found you and your nice,warm garage after 44 years in the woods...really enjoy watching you encounter, ponder, and conquer each new challenge!

[Burlyhammer]

Pinetops,

I thought it was a good angle. It looked like the inside of the bus was on fire (it wasn't) I am paranoid about fire though. After I finish up grinding/welding, I re check my garage an hour or so later to make sure fire is not present.

twowings,

I have my thermostat set at 40 degrees. I did not realize how much fuel it would take to heat the room. I plan on tightening up the insulation and sealing the door better when things warm up. We had a high of 1 degree Saturday, and 17 degrees yesterday. My house is about 100 yards from my garage, so when I walk into the garage from the house, it seems warm. I want to keep it above freezing to protect my paint, etc. We are preparing now for 2 feet of snow. Should be here tomorrow through Wednesday. The good news about snow storms up here is that when it snows, it warms up (usually in the 20's) We went to our annual VW club winter luncheon yesterday near Bangor and my son wore shorts. He wanted to take the 79 Westy, but the bus was not having it. We had a big snow storm exactly 1 month ago. Here is my daughter shoveling a path to the chicken coop:

She was not having fun. (I did help)We got around 30" We are only expecting 22" tomorrow. No problem.

[Burlyhammer]

I went out this morning and did the whole hemming/hawing routine with the frame again. I continued prepping the donor section just in case. Just me and my grinder and 45 minutes later, viola:

It is sort of progress. Maybe I I will be able to sneak out when I get home tonight.

[Burlyhammersis]

Excellent!

[Burlyhammer]

We did end up getting snow, but it was half of what was forecasted.

I have decided to use the entire front frame and seat portion of the donor walkthru section I have. I decided that if I were to piece in the replacement parts, there would not be much left anyway. I don't think it will be necessarily easier, but it seems like the right thing to do. I am going to repair/prep the donor section before I start to put it in. I am starting with the passenger side. The inner sheet metal is a little wonky, so I am going to remove the rusted parts, and make the replacement parts:

After my fire paranoia speech the other day, I got back to griding. I smelled something, and found that I caught my sweatshirt on fire:

I recently put a hook on the wall and hung my welding jacket. It seems to make more sense to wear it instead of look at it, so now I will wear it:

Here is what is going on. The inner panel at the rear of the box part of the frame was rusty behind the front outrigger, so I removed it and made this:

I will put this piece in after I join the donor frame to the rear section. I am going to join the seams behind the outrigger to hide the seam, and fishplate it on the inside. I also started making the inner plate to replace the rusty section around where the beam bolts in:
the

My sweet cardboard template is coming in handy now. Here is before welding:

Maybe soon I will actually weld something that is not a brace. We will see.

[ryans65]

[Burlyhammer]

Ryan65,

It seemed like there were about 6 spot welds plus the welded seams on each surface on top and bottom. I usually find the spot welds and grind/peel until the parts are separated. This was not working, so I pretty much ground the entire contact surfaces off after I cut off the valence parts that were overhanging. I planned for 1 hour and it took me about 3.

Maybe if you wire brushed or sand blasted the surfaces first you could see and drill out the spot welds. Mine were too rusty. Good luck.

Thanks,
Dave

[Burlyhammer]

Funky Red?

[Burlyhammer]

I decided that I do things backwards. Whenever I go to work on the bus, the first thing I do is put all of my tools away and clean up my mess. Then I start working and taking everything out again. It does not take long to have a huge mess. I am still prepping the walkthru donor section. I had to make a funky red extension this morning:

I was happy with the fit. It seems like the more I dig into this donor, the more replacement metal it needs. I think it is good to practice on this rather than on the bus. By the time I get to putting this part in, I am hoping things will look a little better. It is awkward on the bench, but it is definitely easier then rolling around underneath the bus. I had to cut another piece from the middle section where the vertical metal goes through the center floor.

I ended up making this piece twice. I didn't take into account the thickness the cutting wheel removed when I traced the old piece. The second one came out nice. I applied ospho to the inside of the frame to inhibit the rust. I plan to paint it tomorrow with some zinc enriched paint before welding the pieces in. I was thinking that there is always a reason for me not to weld/attach anything to finalize a piece so I decided to repair the flange between the front seats where the floor attaches. I went to Harbor Freight to look at the metal brakes they have. I have/will be doing a bunch of bending and thought one would help. After looking at what they had I decided to stick with my blocks of steel for now. They seem to do the trick for what I am doing.

One more Funky red panel:

I was happy with the way it turned out. I still have to add some pieces to to the lower edges of the seat pedestals, but I may do that once the section is fitted in the bus. After I put the ospho on, I noticed a pinhole in the bend of the frame where the beam sits. I drilled it out and put a piece of metal inside and plug welded it.

I then decided to repair another small rusty spot. I cleaned it up and put a piece of aluminum inside the beam to back the hole up, but I kept burning through. Finally I got it filled, but after I finished, I tapped the side next to where I welded/grinded, and made this sweet hole:

So I cut the whole area out and welded in some sheet metal. I should have done this to begin with:

As I was tapping I found another area needing repair. I am hoping just a small piece of metal will be needed.

This turned out well. It does make me nervous about the areas that I can't see. The lower/bottom part of the frame rail had another pin hole toward the back, so I started digging, and another pin hole appeared. I am considering splicing a piece of frame from the one still in the bus. I am not sure at this point exactly what I will do. I may sand blast what I can see and go from there. What I want to do is fix this right. I do not want to have to fix this again down the road. Maybe tomorrow morning after I put my tools away before I get started it will come to me. If anyone has any suggestions, don't hold back.

Thanks

[Burlyhammer]

Well... I put all of my tools away this morning and while I was cleaning up I found a piece of 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat bar and thought "I could weld this into the inside of the frame where the metal is thin, and keep the strength, and keep it looking untouched from the factory. I planned to grind it smooth, but thought I would try out my new wire wheel (non Harbor Freight) on the exposed area first:

Well, I was in denial, but there is no denying this. If I want to use this it is going to be seriously spliced. It looks like the only usable part is the top. I figured now was the time to open up the other side. I knew the drivers side was going to require more work, because there were visible holes through the outside:

So I peeled it open:

Terra firma mixed with some crusty gold. Not good.

This side is in far worse shape than the pass. side. I did not find any acorns, but I haven't dug out all of the material yet. Since I don't want to use a bunch of splices and do not intend to go back and repair this area down the road, I think I will order the frame sections from Alan Schofields.
To be continued.

[Pinetops]

It'll be good peace of mind to know it's done right.
_________________
"A rolling bus gathers no rust."

[Burlyhammer]

Pinetops,

I agree. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I was not sure this repair was not going to come back and haunt me. I ordered some metal from Schofields. Their stuff looks awesome:

Front Chassis Section Left ->67. 211-703-205
Front Chassis Section Right ->67. 211-703-204
Inner Front Chassis Leg, Right 55-67. 211-703-312A
Inner Front Chassis Leg, Left 55-67. 211-703-305A

Now while I wait for my parts, I need to thin the hoard to pay for everything.
I can't wait until my parts get here. I am going to wait until my parts show up before I cut into this area. I will find something else to do until then.

[Burlyhammer]

I got my parts yesterday. I did not expect them to arrive so fast. The parts came from Schofields in GB and look really nice:

I removed the donor frame from the walk thru section I had and noticed it was quite flimsy. It definitely takes all parts to make it solid. I decided that since I could flex the frame by hand, that instead of removing the entire front section out of the bus, I would do one rail at a time. This seems safer to me than swapping the whole section. Since I now have my frame pieces, I decided to go for it. I removed the drivers side walkthru seat and pedestal sections. I was careful to drill out the spot welds on the pieces I will re use. I will keep the seat back and tool box area.
Before I started cutting I added a few more braces. I put a bar across the top right behind the b pillars, then ran vertical supports up from the frame rails to the cross bar. When I measured the space between the frame and the cross bar there was a 1" difference. I decided to make the vertical braces adjustable, figuring that the whole front is cocked off. This way I can straighten it once things are cut loose without repositioning my braces.
Before:

After:

And then:

To this:

Once I removed the bent frame section from the drivers side, I was curious how the doors were going to line up. The passenger door jam was parallel with the b pillar, but the gap was a little wide. I put a ratchet strap on it, and it is looking much better. The door actually closes now:

I put the cargo doors on when I started this morning so my bracing would not cause anything to bind. My new driver side door is only on with one hinge. I put it back on and the gap looked like this:

I am excited to see the gaps lining up so well. I will keep an eye on them when I put the frame back together. I am going to replace the driver side frame piece before I remove the passenger side. I plan to make a jig in order to keep the frame pieces where they should be when I weld them together before installing the welded piece back in the bus. I needed some short pieces of frame rail, and I have been waiting for a warm day to excavate a floor section that has been frozen to the ground all winter. I had a rear section from a panel sitting on top of the floor section. My son and I had to lift the rear section up, and I put a piece of wood under it to hold it up. I told my son to be careful, because of the delicate balance. He said this looked like a trap to catch VW enthusiasts.

We ended up rolling the rear section out of the way. The floor took some major effort to break free from the ice. I am going to let it thaw before I get what I need. It was a long day of cutting and grinding. I finished the day with prepping the frame rail so I can start making my jig first thing tomorrow (after I clean up my mess from today)

[zuggbug]

Wow, keep the pics coming. Great job
_________________
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy

[notchboy]

[glideking]

Not squeamish are you?
Kurt
_________________
"The more I get done the less it looks like I did anything"
1959 Single Cab Restoration"Funky Truck"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...highlight=
1965 21 Window Restoration Thread (From old photos)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1963 Panelvan build "Tyvanosaurus Wrecks"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8351639#8351639

[Burlyhammer]

I went out this morning ready to weld. I have not yet actually welded anything on my bus except bracing. I was expecting to just swap out the bad frame section for the replacement piece and install it onto the bus. I put the replacement piece up to the original frame section, and it did not match. It started and ended in the correct place, but it was how it got there that bothered me. I spent about 2 hours trying to decide what to do. Here are the two new frame sides against each other:

and against the new sheet metal:

The frame section lines up perfectly with the new sheet metal, and both sides are the same. It looks like when the frame pieces were made, they were pressed, then cut and welded. The original frame section was pressed and has a gradual sweeping radius on the bottom lip coming from the beam boss. This is what I was wanting. Not the bend in the new piece:

The flexible brake line bracket was welded on to the new section. The original bracket was spot welded, so it had to go:

I finally decided I could create what I was wanting with the new frame piece if I cut it up (I know, I pretty much have cut up everything so far)
This is what the two pieces from the exact same area look like in comparasion:

I decided that since I was not going to be able to use the whole new piece, I would need to make a spot for it:

This is what I did to fit the new piece:

I got it fitted

I needed one small piece for the end, so I grabbed a piece from this:

And ended up with this:

I was really happy with the way the bend ended up. It will be real close to the original piece once the welds are cleaned up. I still have to finish grinding all of the welds, reattach the brake line bracket, and drill the hole for the the steel brake line where it passes through the frame. It seemed strange to me that the hole was in the new sheet metal, but not the frame section. Now I am glad it was not there. I would have had to fill it in and relocate it. I may put a plate inside where the sectioned pieces come together. I am not sure it is needed since it is solid, and the vertical sheet metal won't allow it to collapse. I do plan to put some pieces inside where the piece ties into the frame still on the bus. What seemed like a cut and dry job turned into a 10 hour marathon. I had to stop, because I realized I was tired. I did drink a pot of coffee, and a glass of water. I think I have a good plan for the next go around. We will see.

[exotic plants]

Pure badass! Terrific attention to detail. Great work for sure.
_________________
1956 Beetle - Jungle Green.
Parts needed to complete:
Front driver side fender.
Rear driver side fender.
Cash waiting.
------------------------------------------------------------

[glideking]

It is only steel. It can be made to form any shape you want.
_________________
"The more I get done the less it looks like I did anything"
1959 Single Cab Restoration"Funky Truck"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...highlight=
1965 21 Window Restoration Thread (From old photos)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1963 Panelvan build "Tyvanosaurus Wrecks"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8351639#8351639