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Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Dellorto 30mm Venturi's vs CB-Performance 28mm Venturi's Reply with quote

CB Performance 28mm Venturi test run video

It's been awhile since I checked all of these things for sure. Good idea "Bulli Klinik"! Will do the best I can with the "bear skins and knives" ie (a timing light and feeler gauge) I have for timing it. I am thinking it's as "modok" was saying here that it's the location of the CB-Performance 28mm Venturi choke is too high in the carb relative to the auxiliary venturi. I am concerned about the step at the bottom too. I was really trying to swamp it in the video just to demonstrate. Yes there is quite a bit popping the first few seconds after startup when cold, but that's not what I call popping in the video, I thought by popping, backfiring through the carb was implied.

The reason for trying the 30mm venturi's would be because they don't leave that step and the choke area in the venturi's is much lower, more in the area of the of the center tube of the auxiliary venturi with them.

The idle adjusters seem to have effect from 0 through 2 turns and are set at about 1 1/2 turns out.

The Step:
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The Venturi's choke area CB-28mm vs DRLA 30mm:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.








Dellorto 30mm Venturi's vs CB-Performance 28mm Venturi's


Link

1679cc Link:

Commentary:
Just for comparison here, remember this engine? This is my spare bus engine it has the 88mm bore X 74mm stroke 1800cc's. It has the 30mm ventures but it's got a little bit more cam. Had it running a minute ago. Alright, that's what happens! Engine Starts.
As you can see -- it has a different exhaust on it so it's really noisy, other than that it's the same engine, it's a hundred cc's bigger than this one.
So it has the 30mm ventures and a little bit more cam. Engine Rev, Rev Rev.
This thing doesn't have any hesitation at all, just a, it's what it does. So I don't know. I guess there is something wrong with this one, a, the ventures just aren't right!
I don't Know What do you think?

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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: New Video 1679cc Stock-ish engine with drla 30mm venturi's Reply with quote

Ok I took out the CB-Performance 28mm Venturi's and installed the Dellorto 30mm's
Data:
Main's Unchanged 125's
Fuel level check RT 20mm adjusted to lower
Fuel level check LF 18mm
Problems #3 acceleration injector was clogged, these pump jets look very small!
Timing was 6' fast.

Here is the video:

Link

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Have you checked any readings with an O2 sensor for jetting and mixture setting?

Robbie
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Have you checked any readings with an O2 sensor for jetting and mixture setting? Robbie


Oh how I wish I had a WideBand 02 Sensor for it. Not sure how much can be learned though with the engine on the bench?

Perhaps I could just by the 02 Sensor and measure it's voltage and figure out the Air Fuel Ratio that way? But I think they use a specially calibrated controller which would be needed?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Oil Change Reply with quote

This engine got an Oil Change with Castrol 5W30, Lucas break-in oil additive with ZDDP and Napa Gold 1342 Oil Filter. The oil drain plate was removed and cleaned. No metal particles were found. Some sludge had settled on the drain plate not sure what it is from? (Possible the blue oil hose I have on the engine is dissolving better check it!) Also there was some gasket material stuck to the outside of the oil screen.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus Build Sheet UpDate Reply with quote

With Solex Pict-34/3: Video 1,
With Single Zenith NDIX 32: Video 2,
With Dual Dells: Video 3,
With Dual Zeniths: Video 4.
1679cc Type 1 Engine Build Sheet (Feb. 19th 2017):
Special thanks to everyone here on the Samba that participated.
Machine Work: Local shops,
Misc: Parts and service: Bug Germinators, North Bend OR.
Engine Case: 1971 VW Bus AE 034 XXX 60 SAE HP, Dual Port Serial Number, AS-41 Magnesium, Inserted for 8mm studs and deep #3, Full Flow oil return and block off, Stock 1600 Cylinder Openings.
88mm Bore, 69mm Stroke,
Stock Solex PICT 34/3 Carburetor Zenith NDIX 32 P010 25mm venturi's,
RaceTrim Plenum Intake Manifold (Heat Riser Tubes connected)

Installed Dual 36mm Dellorto drla carburetors:
55 Idle jets,
125 Main jets,
180 Air correction,
33 pump jets, (Need larger)
Tried CB-28mm then Dell-30mm Venturi's (Needs Dell-28mm Venturi's)
,
Cam W-100 with 276' 236' at .050" and .420" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers,
Heads New L3 DRD Racing Heads, 3 angle valve job, stock sized VW 35.5mm X 32mm SS valves and single high rev valve springs,
Scat Solid Rocker shaft and swivel adjusters from PowerHaus, 1.1:1 Ratio stock VW rockers,
Stock Push Rods,
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance 1565 Large ID Racing,
Lifters cb-performance Stock Lifters,
CR Compression Ratio 8.0:1
Rods Stock from the old engine resized,
Crankshaft: 69mm Counterweighted 4140 Forged Chromoly from CB-Performance,
Piston and Cylinders 88mm AA ThickWall from Aircooled.Net
Flywheel Stock VW 200mm, Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels,
Pressure Plate: Not on the engine yet,
Throw Bearing: Not chosen yet,
Clutch Disc: Not chosen yet,
Aftermarket Aluminum degree pulley with Black lettering,
Balancing: Everything: Rods, Pistons with wrist pins, Crank and Flywheel Balanced Separately due to changing the flywheel after the engine was together,
Stock Bocar Fuel Pump, Bocar Alternator style fuel pump, Back to stock 1300-1600 Bocar fuel pump to make room for a all thread stud to brace the carburetor, the fuel pump required minor filing and bending fuel lines.
Oil Pump 26mm aftermarket 111115107AKHD with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter,
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
German Bosch Distributor 205AN DVDA 009 with points, Timing is set at 7.5' BTDC Static, 29' BTDC Dynamic,
Bosch 4 ohm Coil,
Bosch 09001 Spark Wires,
Spark Plugs are Bosch Super Plus W7-DC0 14mm X 3/4",
Generator, Original 1971 VW Bus Bosch 38 amp Generator,
Solid State Voltage Regulator Bosch 9-190-040-099E - 14V,
Left & Right Dual Port Intake Manifolds (Original Stock manifolds),
Muffler Stock, Herst. Leistritz
Heater boxes, Stock,
Thermostat and Flaps installed.
The Zenith NDIX 32 P010 Center Mounted Carburetor has:
25mm Venturis,
#2 Accel nozal,
55 Accel Jets,
K4 Emulsion Tube,
180 Air Correction jets,
140 Idle air jets,
60 idle jets, and
135 main jets.
Zenith Chart
.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by Danwvw on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Dells rock
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

You could have a cooler running engine and 10 more horsepower if you ditch that teeny-tiny output OG muffler. They are nice, for a stock engine. Not yours. If you add more breathing ability via carbs and more bore, you better address the exhaust too if you want the full potential of the engine to be realized
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Yeah, you need an A1 Sidewinder
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I could look into doing that If I put this engine into the bus. Thanks for the suggestions.
My goal originally was to make this an original stock looking engine in every way for the bus. But I Put a W-100 cam in thinking I could get away with that but as it turns out it wouldn't idle right with the stock PICT 34 Solex carb and the W-100 Cam.
Now I am just using this engine to test carbs. I think those dell's would blow out the stock exhaust pretty quick the way they make the 1679cc engine run. The W-100 cam seems to be a good match for the L3 heads etc..But I think a CB-2280 camshaft may have played better with the stock PICT 34 carburetor.
I may just take the engine back apart and change the cam and put the PICT-34 on it, I do want to have a Original and Stock or close to Stock engine available for the 1971 VW Bus.
It's hard going back after getting a taste of what Dells can do.
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I've built two engines with stock carbs and an Engle 100. One was a thick wall 1678 and the other a thick wall 1835. Both engine around 8:1 compression. One for a Bus and one for a Baja. Both on stock heads with high rev springs.

Both were fantastic running motors. Not sure why you can't get yours to run right?

A tuned exhaust will make that motor run better and cooler.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Bulli,
How about a few examples of a tuned exhaust you recommend? Hopefully I'll be building my own close to stockish engine with added HP soon.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I ran across this chart posted on "mazza89's" Thread where he buys a bug with supposedly just 500 miles on the engine? The chart shows some interesting data on exhaust sizes for normally aspirated VW engines. Most interesting to me is the effects smaller pipes have on lower rpm's vs displacement.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by Danwvw on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Bulli,
How about a few examples of a tuned exhaust you recommend? Hopefully I'll be building my own close to stockish engine with added HP soon.


Virtually any equal length exhaust will do the trick. Empi, Scat, Thunderbird, Berg, Bugpack. They all seem to make or sell merged exhausts. I wouldn't go over a 1 1/2" header on this motor.

One of the motors I built was with a Bugpack exhaust and the other had a buggy exhaust and a Empi spark arrester.

https://www.facebook.com/BulliKlinik/videos/814096451996674/
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
I ran across this chart posted on "mazza89's" Thread where he buys a bug with supposedly just 500 miles on the engine? The chart shows some interesting data on exhaust sizes for normally aspirated VW engines. Most interesting to me is the effects smaller pipes have on lower rpm's vs displacement.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Interesting chart. Is this supposed to show where the torque is at it's highest or top RPM?
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I don't know what those numbers are the guy I got them from says they were published in Hot VW Magazine years ago. He said there should be a lot written about it here on the samba though.
Doing some research, it's James Beahm's header size chart (published in Hot VW's in 2012). Bet the numbers are where power falls off.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Here are some other charts that might be useful.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I do not know if this directly applies to a bus.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

DeathBySnuSnu wrote:
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Great that you posted, Yes thanks for the charts! and this oil pump info is so important. Need to get it to beatles4 who is rebuilding his early bay bus engine a single port 1600 now. it's so important to use the correct oil pump.

Years ago I got a hold of a filter pump that totally messed up. The the pump gear drive tab so poorly engaged it sheared at the cam and seized that engine. It needed a new crank and bearings after being driven on the freeway by my friend that did not know what that light that come on ment. The car went for 15 minutes. He said when he saw the light he became concerned the car might quit on him before he reached his destination so he floored it until it seized up in the middle of the night leaving him stranded. At least I didn't get the call till the next day and he had my 1967 beetle towed to safety.
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