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Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?
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1970fun
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

How about this setup?
A standard beetle exhaust with 2 type 3 endpipes it's nice and quiet and performs way better as the vintage speed i had.
A standard beetle exhaust isn't as bad as people think, even Oettinger used them on their 2 litre engines, they only removed the sieves that leeds to cillinder 3 and 1.
My current engine is a 1776 with a 37mm solex carb.
i had this exhaust also on a 1641 with mild cam and 2 single barel 34mm carbs, but i thougt a stainless steel vintage speed would be the deal, but it was way to loud for me and performance wise it was crap too so sold that one.
I think for mild engines it's perfect and the look is pretty stock too.

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Even fit's with a og westfalia towbar.
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I had the same setup on my split panel for years with a dual carbed, SP 1600. Ran and sounded great. This is a good setup if you need to have a tow hitch. In fact, I run a Beetle muffler on my Dormobile for the same reason.

But you will still get better power out of a equal length header.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

You got to like it for sure. How much of a load can one tow with a early bay window off the frame like it would have to be? Is it off of the frame?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
We went up to the Bug Fest at Woodburn Oregon for the show and drag races and I bought this Distributor that the fellow said was for the 1971 Bus, But on getting it home I find it may be for a Type 4. So now I am thinking with the PICT 34's not Idling with the Stock Distributor and all I should just do the 009 with the Zenith 32 NDIX, just got one of those too.
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I realize this is old but here is what that dist is for:

Bus & Pickup 1975-Early 1976 * 1800 (75), 2000 (76) Manual Trans

Distributor: VW 021-905-205AB, 0231 176 048, 022-905-205AB, 0231 181 012
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Note: 0231 181 012 dist originally equipped with Speed Limiting Rotor 04 016 (5400rpm)
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 012
Vacuum Can: 07 125
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W8CC
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950 rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg, 11-13deg Ret @7.9 In. Hg; Centrifigual: 11-17deg @ 2000 rpm, 21-25deg @ 3600 rpm
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Yes I know, I have been running it on my Daily Driver though. Works better than the 009. Just bolted down the vacuum advance plate and removed the vacuum advance mechanism from the distributor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I am going to try real Dellorto 28mm venturis to see if that helps this engine begin rev better first but seriously thinking I need to loose the W-100 cam!
Perhaps try A Webcam 218 with the Dells or the New W-90? if I wind up making it stock again? Also see What General Rules Apply When Choosing A Cam?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

In the meantime I want to try a set of Zenith Carbs as Duals on it. The single was ok but ran very rich and was hard to start and warm up. I have several Zenith P010's and a couple of Porsche bases that I plan to configure for this. Will try 24mm Venturi's first as that is what I have. Have to see what Jets I have. Probably 180 Main Air etc... 50 Idle 120 or 125 mains?

My Zenith Collection:
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: EuroCarb 28mm Dellorto Venturi Reply with quote

Before I install these 28mm Dellorto 36 venturis in the engine in the Bus I thought I would try them on the 1679cc Stock ish engine here and see how it runs with them. To Recap. I built this engine to go into the 1971 VW bus as a Stock-ish engine. And have been experimenting with different carburetion on it.

1st. was the Stock PICT 34 Solex,
2nd. A single Zenith 32,
3rd Dellorto 36mm carbs with CB-Performance 28mm Venturis and also tried 30mm dellorto venturis.

Now I got my hands on some EuroCarb 28mm Venturis which match the Dellorto 28mm venturi's

I just need to get some Dual VW-Zenith-32 manifolds and a few things like throttle linkages then I will set this engine up with Dual Zenith 32 Carburetors.

Video.
EuroCarb Venturi for Dellorto 36 DRLA Carburetors:
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CB-Performance 28mm Venturi in Front of the EuroCarb 28mm with the Dellorto Aux Venturi shown:
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EuroCarb Ventui on top, CB-Performance Venturi Bottom:
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EuroCarb Venturi Installed. No step at it's bottom unlike the CB-Performance Ventui's had:
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The EuroCarb 28mm Venturi's look like a perfect match inside to the Dellorto 28mm Venturi's The CB-Performance are really for DRLA 40'mm carbs causing a ledge when used with a Dellorto 36 Carburetor and have their choke point too high.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Build Sheet UpDate Reply with quote

1679cc Type 1 Engine Build Sheet (Feb. 19th 2017) (Oct. 22 2017):
Special thanks to everyone here on the Samba that participated.
Machine Work: Local shops,
Misc: Parts and service: Bug Germinators, North Bend OR.
Engine Case: 1971 VW Bus AE 034 XXX 60 SAE HP, Dual Port Serial Number, AS-41 Magnesium, Inserted for 8mm studs and deep #3, Full Flow oil return and block off, Stock 1600 Cylinder Openings.
88mm Bore, 69mm Stroke,
Stock Solex PICT 34/3 Carburetor Zenith NDIX 32 P010 25mm venturi's,
RaceTrim Plenum Intake Manifold (Heat Riser Tubes connected)

Installed Dual 36mm Dellorto drla carburetors:
55 52 Idle jets,
125 122 Main jets,
180 Air correction,
33 pump jets, , 55 pump jets,
Tried CB-28mm then Dell-30mm Venturi's (Needs Dell-28mm Venturi's) Eurocarb 28mm venturi's installed
,
Cam W-100 with 276' 236' at .050" and .420" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers,
Heads New L3 DRD Racing Heads, 3 angle valve job, stock sized VW 35.5mm X 32mm SS valves and single high rev valve springs,
Scat Solid Rocker shaft and swivel adjusters from PowerHaus, 1.1:1 Ratio stock VW rockers,
Stock Push Rods,
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance 1565 Large ID Racing,
Lifters cb-performance Stock Lifters,
CR Compression Ratio 8.0:1
Rods Stock from the old engine resized,
Crankshaft: 69mm Counterweighted 4140 Forged Chromoly from CB-Performance,
Piston and Cylinders 88mm AA ThickWall from Aircooled.Net
Flywheel Stock VW 200mm, Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels,
Pressure Plate: Not on the engine yet,
Throw Bearing: Not chosen yet,
Clutch Disc: Not chosen yet,
Aftermarket Aluminum degree pulley with Black lettering,
Balancing: Everything: Rods, Pistons with wrist pins, Crank and Flywheel Balanced Separately due to changing the flywheel after the engine was together,
Stock Bocar Fuel Pump, Bocar Alternator style fuel pump, Back to stock 1300-1600 Bocar fuel pump to make room for a all thread stud to brace the carburetor, the fuel pump required minor filing and bending fuel lines.
Oil Pump 26mm aftermarket 111115107AKHD with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter,
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
German Bosch Distributor 205AN DVDA 009 with points, Timing is set at 7.5' BTDC Static, 29' BTDC Dynamic,
Bosch 4 ohm Coil,
Bosch 09001 Spark Wires,
Spark Plugs are Bosch Super Plus W7-DC0 14mm X 3/4",
Generator, Original 1971 VW Bus Bosch 38 amp Generator,
Solid State Voltage Regulator Bosch 9-190-040-099E - 14V,
Left & Right Dual Port Intake Manifolds (Original Stock manifolds),
Muffler Stock, Herst. Leistritz
Heater boxes, Stock,
Thermostat and Flaps installed.
The Zenith NDIX 32 P010 Center Mounted Carburetor has:
25mm Venturis,
#2 Accel nozal,
55 Accel Jets,
K4 Emulsion Tube,
180 Air Correction jets,
140 Idle air jets,
60 idle jets, and
135 main jets.
Zenith Chart
.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

This is going in Thursday

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Interesting, are you installing it in this that you now have restored?
Looks like Texas Panhandle maybe far Eastern New Mexico!
Link
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The tail pipes look like they would clear the back draft of a bus nicely. Except for the extended pipes it looks stock to me but that does look like a weighted pulley.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Yep, 6 1/2 pound Berg pulley. I have no idea yet how the exhaust will fit up but it sure sounds good. No whistle like a bug with pea shooters.

That rust bus pic was taken in deepest darkest baja back around 1980.

EDIT: Stock look but 88 x 74 with rejetted carb and bored venturi. Cheater cam, 1 1/2 quart sump, full flow, new case, new everything actually.

Volkzbitz correct carb
Bill Fowler correct distributor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Yep, 6 1/2 pound Berg pulley. I have no idea yet how the exhaust will fit up but it sure sounds good. No whistle like a bug with pea shooters.

That rust bus pic was taken in deepest darkest baja back around 1980.

EDIT: Stock look but 88 x 74 with rejetted carb and bored venturi. Cheater cam, 1 1/2 quart sump, full flow, new case, new everything actually.

Volkzbitz correct carb
Bill Fowler correct distributor


Ohhh, that's going to be plush. Very nice.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
This is going in Thursday

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Looking forward to hearing how it runs Gary. I bet it's going to be amazing as it was built nicely with a great combo.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Yep, 6 1/2 pound Berg pulley. I have no idea yet how the exhaust will fit up but it sure sounds good. No whistle like a bug with pea shooters.

That rust bus pic was taken in deepest darkest baja back around 1980.

EDIT: Stock look but 88 x 74 with rejetted carb and bored venturi. Cheater cam, 1 1/2 quart sump, full flow, new case, new everything actually.

Volkzbitz correct carb
Bill Fowler correct distributor


If you blow this engine up in short order, I'm selling my type 1 and starting my conversion because my engine stands to chance. lol

Sounds like a sweet combo with good parts.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Yeah, that should be a real solid engine. It's going to have nice bottom and be real drivable. It's going to easily push a bus past 75mph but should not be driven 75 or greater for any real extended time. It will overheat some on the freeway but not so much if driven 65 MPH. It's going to go up hill now in 4th too.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus Build Sheet UpDate Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
With Solex Pict-34/3: Video 1,
With Single Zenith NDIX 32: Video 2,
With Dual Dells: Video 3.
1679cc Type 1 Engine Build Sheet (Feb. 19th 2017):
Special thanks to everyone here on the Samba that participated.
Machine Work: Local shops,
Misc: Parts and service: Bug Germinators, North Bend OR.
Engine Case: 1971 VW Bus AE 034 XXX 60 SAE HP, Dual Port Serial Number, AS-41 Magnesium, Inserted for 8mm studs and deep #3, Full Flow oil return and block off, Stock 1600 Cylinder Openings.
88mm Bore, 69mm Stroke,
Stock Solex PICT 34/3 Carburetor Zenith NDIX 32 P010 25mm venturi's,
RaceTrim Plenum Intake Manifold (Heat Riser Tubes connected)

Installed Dual 36mm Dellorto drla carburetors:
55 Idle jets,
125 Main jets,
180 Air correction,
33 pump jets, (Need larger)
Tried CB-28mm then Dell-30mm Venturi's (Needs Dell-28mm Venturi's)
,
Cam W-100 with 276' 236' at .050" and .420" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers,
Heads New L3 DRD Racing Heads, 3 angle valve job, stock sized VW 35.5mm X 32mm SS valves and single high rev valve springs,
Scat Solid Rocker shaft and swivel adjusters from PowerHaus, 1.1:1 Ratio stock VW rockers,
Stock Push Rods,
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance 1565 Large ID Racing,
Lifters cb-performance Stock Lifters,
CR Compression Ratio 8.0:1
Rods Stock from the old engine resized,
Crankshaft: 69mm Counterweighted 4140 Forged Chromoly from CB-Performance,
Piston and Cylinders 88mm AA ThickWall from Aircooled.Net
Flywheel Stock VW 200mm, Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels,
Pressure Plate: Not on the engine yet,
Throw Bearing: Not chosen yet,
Clutch Disc: Not chosen yet,
Aftermarket Aluminum degree pulley with Black lettering,
Balancing: Everything: Rods, Pistons with wrist pins, Crank and Flywheel Balanced Separately due to changing the flywheel after the engine was together,
Stock Bocar Fuel Pump, Bocar Alternator style fuel pump, Back to stock 1300-1600 Bocar fuel pump to make room for a all thread stud to brace the carburetor, the fuel pump required minor filing and bending fuel lines.
Oil Pump 26mm aftermarket 111115107AKHD with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter,
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
German Bosch Distributor 205AN DVDA 009 with points, Timing is set at 7.5' BTDC Static, 29' BTDC Dynamic,
Bosch 4 ohm Coil,
Bosch 09001 Spark Wires,
Spark Plugs are Bosch Super Plus W7-DC0 14mm X 3/4",
Generator, Original 1971 VW Bus Bosch 38 amp Generator,
Solid State Voltage Regulator Bosch 9-190-040-099E - 14V,
Left & Right Dual Port Intake Manifolds (Original Stock manifolds),
Muffler Stock, Herst. Leistritz
Heater boxes, Stock,
Thermostat and Flaps installed.
The Zenith NDIX 32 P010 Center Mounted Carburetor has:
25mm Venturis,
#2 Accel nozal,
55 Accel Jets,
K4 Emulsion Tube,
180 Air Correction jets,
140 Idle air jets,
60 idle jets, and
135 main jets.
Zenith Chart
.

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Floating VW
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Hey Dan, I just finished reading your build thread. Quite a journey. It reminded me of the first time I measured the flywheel run-out on a VW engine I was putting together. I was used to measuring run-out on cranks and cams, which should have somewhere between zero and imperceptible run-out, so, much like you did, I freaked out when I saw the flywheel had almost 0.004"! Then I looked up the specs and saw that the tolerable limit was like 0.012" or something, and then I calmed down a little.

Are you getting your Darla twins sorted out alright? Dells come from the factory with .35 (.33?) accel pump jets, but most VW engines seem to like at least a .45. That was probably what was causing your off-idle bog. A good rule of thumb for venturi size is to multiply the cylinder volume by the maximum RPM, take the square root of that, and divide the result by 50 (Approx. Venturi size (mm) = √ (cc per cylinder × max RPM) ÷ 50). Doing the math for your engine, assuming a max RPM of 5000, gives a result of almost exactly 29mm, so I don't think it will make a noticeable difference whether you run the 28mm or the 30mm venturi. My advice: put the 30mm back in and call it a day.

I know your original idea was to keep it looking stock, but it looks like you're too far down the rabbit hole now, so let's get a proper exhaust poking out the back and really make that baby sing!

Good luck, man.

P.S. You'll like this one: I once had to change the exhaust valve spring on a 356 Super-90, and during the final QC drive before returning the car to the customer, I couldn't help but notice how well it pulled and how smooth the power was. Fast forward to about a year later. I had just finished building an experimental mini-stoker engine for myself that had a rather unusual stroke and bore, and I was sure no one had ever even conceived of something like it before. After getting everything properly dialed in, I couldn't help but notice how similar the engine's performance was to that sweet 356 Super-90 I had driven a while back. And then I discovered, by complete coincidence, that the Super-90 was designed with almost the same stroke and bore as the engine I had built for myself (74X82.5 vs 76X83)! I didn't know if I should congratulate myself for thinking like Dr. Porsche, or cry because I had basically just re-invented the wheel. A little of both, I guess.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: VW Type 1 vs Porsche 356 Engines Reply with quote

Floating VW wrote:
I couldn't help but notice how similar the engine's performance was to that sweet 356 Super-90 I had driven a while back. And then I discovered, by complete coincidence, that the Super-90 was designed with almost the same stroke and bore as the engine I had built for myself (74X82.5 vs 76X83)!
Yup I know what you're talking about! For sure the 356's had it. Real sweet around 4000 rpm on the highway. Hills? What's a hill? No more hills.
Danwvw wrote:
Good to know! I will take another look at the cam, Everything is pointing to a L3 heads. All of the ratios etc work for the torque needed in a Bus. This is all teaching me a lot. Thanks!
Just adding This on May 3 2013, Researching the Porsche 356 engine:
S-90 Engine:
40mm Intake valves,
34mm Exhaust valves,
95 hp on the 1600 SC engine,
Intake valve lift .425",
Intake valve open 53 Degrees BTDC
Exhaust valve close 50 Degrees BBDC

The Normal:
38mm Intake valves,
31mm Exhaust valves,
60 hp on the early 1600,
Intake valve lift .335",
Intake valve open 7 Degrees BTDC
Exhaust Valve close 44 Degrees BBDC
356 Specs.
More on Cams: Here,
CB-2280: Cheater Cam,
CB-2232: Scott's Cam.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Here's an update 11/2/17

Last Saturday I was able to drive the bus with my new engine installed.

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It was wonderful. No leaks, no adjusting things, lots of power, it never died, smooth power, throaty sound

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So, as you can see I had not completed the external oil system yet. I'm working on that now. I mounted the filter in front of the left rear tire. It fits nicely in there

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Last night I started making up 1/2 stainless tubing with AN flares and fitting them to the engine and filter. Soon I'll begin fabricating the 1/2" Parker push lok hose and fittings.

A few engine stats:

1800cc
88 thick wall pistons
74 forged crank 4340 counterweighted
L3 heads from Aircooled.net
Cheater cam with compatible lifters
Solid rocker shafts with stock rockers
Type 1 muffler with T3 dual dampers
Original as delivered Solex 34pict-3 with new jets and bored venturi
Original Bosch DVDA correct for 1971 bus
Throttle positioner, damper, and altitude corrector
1 1/2 qt low profile sump
Full flow system with filter. Might add cooler later
Functional thermostatic flaps
NOS Pierburg fuel pump
Berg 6 1/2 pound degreed pulley
Stock breather system
Fully balanced including clutch plate
Stock flywheel with 8 dowels
38 amp generator
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound
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